TAKING OVER THE CRA/NFRA AND THE CHALCEDON FOUNDATION - ARE WE BEING MANIPULATED?

[William McKinley]

Let's say you are involved in your county's party. You decide to run for office. You are elected, thanks to the help and advice of someone else in your county's party. You worked well with him.

You serve, and then run for a higher office. Since you worked well with him and found him trustworthy, you use him again.

You have no idea that he writes for some fringe group. Why would you? You never had any reason to suspect.

Should you have known? I am skeptical. I could very easily see how he wouldn't have known.

So the guy says something stupid, some of his views come out. McClintock distances himself from those views. Maybe he should have fired the guy. I don't know. But I sure don't see what Chancellor is trying to paint.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

The NFRA site has links to chapters in other states. I think Indiana is on it.

[habs4ever]

The NFRA was mentioned at the top of the post as being a national organization, so there could be a state chapter in Indiana, so try contacting the GOP in your state to see if they know about them?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

And I'd bet dollars to donuts that Stoos is still doing his same job, and hasn't been fired.

[William McKinley]

If you are going to say that Claremont is a bit player, then you can't say that McClintock should have known about Ahmanson because of his involvement with Claremont.

Once again, you have demonstrated to me that Ahmanson is not someone I would be comfortable with. You have yet to give me a reason to be uncomfortable with Claremont, nor a reason to be uncomfortable with those who worked for Claremont.

Frankly, if we are going to demonize Claremont, then you have to also demonize Heritage (since they work together often), and so forth. After all, by your logic they should all know about everything, including that they are just a tool for this Ahmanson character.

So, what percentage of Claremont's funding comes from Ahmanson?

[William McKinley]

Should he be fired for his religious beliefs?

[Chancellor Palpatine]

John Stoos on Buddhists - When asked whether their planned government would have a place for Jews, Buddhists, Moslems and Atheists) "Well, Rush would say that it is better to obey God's 600 laws than man's 6000 laws. No, there would be room for Buddhists, I just don't know how much."

John Stoos--Christian Reconstructionist and "one of the most astute Republican political strategists in California"--when speaking to Jerry Sloan, co-founder of the Tocsin Foundation.

[deport]

I don't have the donor data except one excerpt from the Recall funding [Roberta wife of Howard jr]:

Recall campaigns (for and against)
The following donors were found using the search term 'Ahmanson.'
Contributor	Employer	Amount	Date	Recipient Committee
ROBERTA AHMANSON	SAME	$21,200	09.25.2003	McClintock for Governor
The recall committee database includes the petition-gathering groups, yes and no campaigns, and candidate committees. Contributions to the Governor Gray Davis Committee after July 1, 2003 are also included.

Region funds Episcopalians' move to divide

Roberta Ahmanson

[Poohbah]

The last thing I would want, particularly if I'm in a higher office than before and thinking of going higher (such as having run TWICE for statewide office already) is to walk into an ambush because of not asking.

I would, long before it had a chance to become an issue, make sure that (a) I knew who ALL of my close advisors and assistants hung around with, and (b) that any article that they DID seek to publish went past my desk before going to the journal in question.

[William McKinley]

OK, and?

Why on earth should anyone assume that McClintock had read what he wrote? Was it in the USA Today? Was it reported in the local papers? Was it in National Review? Or was it on some fringe group's newsletter that hardly anyone had ever read?

This is the jump that many seem to be making that I am having a hard time understanding why it should be made.

[tpaine]

They did not intend the U.S. Constitution to be a legal construct which reflects only the Judeo-Christian code.. -- They intended to guarantee a ~new~ republican form of government, based on the individual rights to life, liberty, & property of every person, under the supreme rule of our ~new~ constitutional law..

Wholly agree. However they did not intend for the Constitution to be a legal document from which religion and morality were deconstructed from the states either.

See Art.VI.. -- The states were bound to the supreme Law of the Land, -- which includes our religious freedoms..

I would not approve of any moral national code to be put in place. However I also do not approve of the state laws that these men and their peers passed be overturned to give more 'freedom' for illicit and immoral actions.

Your vision of what is to be deemed 'illicit/immoral' must meet constitutional tests to become law.

You want sodomy? Fine, go find a state that has no sodomy laws. Want to do drugs? Fine, go find a state that has no drug laws.

Sorry, I am not obligated to follow your versions of 'shape up or ship out'.. This is a united republic of states bound by constitutional law..

Considering what California offers up for the most part as conservatives, I'd suggest starting there. Or do you suggest the laws these men passed at the state level stood for decades based on misunderstanding of a document they wrote?

The 'states rightists' position is not a "misunderstanding"..

It is a cynical authoritarian effort to in effect, 'end around' our constitutions BOR's.. Always has been, imo..

[Chancellor Palpatine]

I don't care about Claremont, nor was it the focus of my research. The only reason it came up was because Ahmanson was a donor, and McC worked there a time. The simple fact of the matter is that there is no way that McClintock didn't know what Ahmanson was about - and that is my focus right now.

[William McKinley]

I guess we just look at things differently. It would never cross my mind to ask someone if they belong to a group like this, since I know how small a percentage of the population they are and as such would never anticipate someone being involved with them, even if someone seemed particularly devout.

[Poohbah]

Why on earth should anyone assume that McClintock had read what he wrote?

Anything that comes out from any of Tom's staffers will reflect on Tom. It may not be fair, but it's the way things are. A prudent officeholder will ask to see anything that comes out from anyone in the office, if for no other reason than being ready for controversy or message deconfliction.

Was it in the USA Today? Was it reported in the local papers? Was it in National Review? Or was it on some fringe group's newsletter that hardly anyone had ever read?

In a Yahoo-Google-Infoseek-Lycos world, it doesn't matter if it was published in USA Today or somewhere else...it WILL be found if someone bothers to look.

[Miss Marple]

Yep. Just did a Google as well. I think I will ask someone in the Indiana party what they know. It also could be that the Indiana branch is just grass roots. It will be interesting to find out.

[Poohbah]

I guess we just look at things differently. It would never cross my mind to ask someone if they belong to a group like this, since I know how small a percentage of the population they are and as such would never anticipate someone being involved with them, even if someone seemed particularly devout.

When I was in South Carolina, I knew a guy who was a legislative staffer and a World War II airplane buff. He wrote a few articles for magazines like Air Classics and Wings. His articles were completely noncontroversial--but he still had to get clearance from his boss (an assemblywoman) to send them to the publisher.

[mrsmith]

.

If famine, drought, pestilence, earthquake or any other public calamity threatened, the cry was raised "the Christians to the lions".

[William McKinley]

The simple fact of the matter is that there is no way that McClintock didn't know what Ahmanson was about

I completely understand that you believe this to the bottom of your soul.

I, on the other hand, have seen nothing to indicate to me that he would have ever even heard of the guy.

You provided two pieces of evidence.

One: McClintock worked for Claremont, which Ahmanson donated to. To me, this shows nothing. Obviously, to you it does because you included it. I am trying to get at what you think it shows, and in doing I want to see what other implications it would hold.

Two: McClintock has an aide who knows very well who Ahmanson is and what he's about. It has been proven to me that he has such an aide who does know this. But how this means McClintock had to know who Ahmanson is, I do not see. I do not assume that because two people know each other and work with (or for) each other, that they share all experiences and knowledge.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

You might warn them about these folks - don't let them get a toehold.

[EllaMinnow]

I did a google, and this post of strela's came up:
____________________________________________

I find it even funnier that you attack Arnold Schwarzenegger for merely attending a meeting with Ken Lay while at the same time ignoring some of Tom McClintock's more ... er, "interesting" donors:

Here are the top 10 donors or lenders to major party candidates for state controller:

TOM MCCLINTOCK (Republican)

2. Fieldstead & Co., which is headed by Orange County financier Howard Ahmanson Jr.: $190,000

One of Mr. Ahmanson's more ... interesting ... quotes :

"My purpose is total integration of biblical law into our lives."

Ahmanson inherited his money from his father, owner of Home Savings & Loan ... during the S&L scandal of the Reagan years, Home's investors, mostly small family investments, lost over $150 million dollars. No one went to jail."

More information about Mr. Ahmanson:

"Howard Ahmanson was a board member of the Chalcedon Institute for 23 years. This organization wants the government to adhere to biblical law, which, includes among other things, the killing of all gays and lesbians."

Want more?

"The group's biggest bankroller (both to campaigns and major conservative organizations) is Howard Ahmanson, who with his wife Roberta contributed nearly $2 million to various causes and candidates in 1992 alone. This is significant in part because Ahmanson is a longtime director of a theocratic think tank, the Chalcedon Foundation. The Chalcedon Foundation and its founder, R.J. Rushdoony, call for the abolition of democracy and the installation of a theocratic republic under "Biblical Law." The Chalcedon Foundation's theocratic agenda includes, among other things, capital punishment for such religious offenses as blasphemy, heresy, and apostasy, as well as abortion, adultery, and homosexuality."

And they say there is no American Taliban.


91 posted on 09/24/2003 8:04 AM EDT by strela (I wonder if Tom McClintock will have to "make a reservation" to pay back all that money?)

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Post 91 on this thread:

http://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/988275/posts?page=77