Smokers' houses harder to sell

Wilmington (DE) News Journal ^ | September 26, 2003 | Maureen Milford

[Gabz]

As tobacco has become less socially acceptable and home buyers are more aware of indoor air quality, houses that reek of cigarette smoke are becoming a harder sell, experts report.

"It definitely is a major turnoff," said Michael Wilson, a real estate agent with Prudential Fox & Roach Realtors in Brandywine Hundred. "Buyers immediately think about what they'll have to do to eliminate the odor. It's a real drawback and a real negative."

[lockjaw02]

You specifically said, "Your using myth to make argument. Assessments have nothing to do with home values. Assessments like appraisals are just what someone subjectively believes a property would sell for. The only thing that determines the true value of a property is when it sells, everything else is pure conjecture." Now you're saying that you can buy houses below the true value of the property and you're using appraisals to gauge that true value. In other words, that means that the selling price DOES NOT determine the true value of the property. Thus you contradicted yourself. And I'm having no trouble at all keeping up, thank you.

Now I don't buy and sell property, but I do trade equities in the stock market. I typically buy stocks when they're ten or more percent undervalued and sell when they become overvalued. It's the same exact principle. I know exactly what you're talking about concerning valuations, but you, for the sake of argument, tried to bullshit your way around your previous statements that all smokers' houses are less valuable than non-smokers' houses, and you're pretty god damned arrogant about it.

Again, and for as long as it takes, you keep saying it's about the condition of the house. I fully agree with you. That also means it's not about whether the former occupants were smokers or non-smokers, but how well they maintained the house.

[Gabz]

Thanks

[Max McGarrity]

'And it's just as stupid when you say it as it was when Steve Martin did.

What is it about bodily functions that attracts anti-smokers?

[dar29oh]

Sorry Gabz, Didn't mean to say something bad. I've been watching tv all night and just checking in now and then. Upon my retiring to bed, I've been reviewing the thread and see the Nazi delaware connection. Whoops. I will pay more attention in the future. But still, power to us for a bit instead of them. Delaware is a bad place. I saw some other good posts. I also got a good grasp that this article is a real tool that can have real ramifications in the free market. That kinda hurts. I miss the good old days of the 60's, when you didn't have to fill out a warehouse of forms to start a factory with a lot of smokestacks. I sense some sort of change coming soon. God, I miss the free America I was born into. Where the heck did it go.

[Max McGarrity]

Judith Anne, I think I love you.

Max

[Gabz]

Maybe your house would have sold for a premium had you been a nonsmoker.

Pay attention to what I am saying - not what you "think" I am saying.

Remember, you don't know what I think or what I know and your assumptions that you do only make you look foolish.

[VRWC_minion]

Cigarette smell and a new home

Posted by kendahl (kendahl.johnson@usafa.af.mil) on Wed, Jul 25, 01 at 10:37

We are buying a home and the previous owner was a chain smoker. We are repainting the walls and replacing the carpets and drapes. What else do we need to do in order to ensure that the smell of cigarette smoke doesn't return?

Any help is appreciated...

---

Follow-Up Postings:

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: ambergem (ambergem@earthlink.net) on Wed, Jul 25, 01 at 18:59

Greetings,

I was told that the ceiling gets the tar and nicotine the worst as the exhaled smoke finds its way up to the ceiling. We had professionals look at my MIL's house - a self-built beautiful ranch, imported wood floors, equisite, but the ceilings were ruined by smoke!!! They wanted alot of money to work on it (I'm not sure what they were going to use) to get the inbeded tar and nicotine out. Sorry not much help, but you may have to deal with the ceiling.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: dianasdolls (My Page) on Mon, Jul 30, 01 at 7:11

I detest cigarette smoke myself. I forbid anyone to smoke in my home and avoid it when out if at all possible. I am allergic to it and have had to remove cigarette smoke from some purchases I've made online where the seller never mentioned they smoked.
ambergem is right, you might want to re-sheetrock or repaint the ceiling, depending on the finish of the ceiling of course. If it's not a popcorn ceiling and is textured like the walls, repainting should be fine. Be sure to thoroughly clean any non-carpeted floors, such as wood or lineoleum. You may want to get the furnace ducts vacuumed out/cleaned (call a furnace place for a quote - ours was around $200).
If any insulation was exposed to the living part of the house, such as an unfinshed room or non-sheetrocked garage, than it may need replaced to get rid of the smell.
The best thing to use is your nose. You may look strange, but sniff everything in the house you're not sure about for cigarette smell. If it smells, clean or replace it. When you can't smell it anymore, then you should be completely free of the smell, permanently. Good luck!
Diana

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: Marilyn (erak1@hotmail.com) on Fri, Aug 17, 01 at 11:02

I also bought a house from two chain smokers. I regret that I did. I am not bothered with the smell anymore. That eventually dissapates. But, they painted over all the nicotine walls. Also check the wall outlets. Darn hard to clean them, only recourse is replace them. I have not replaced ours yet, and it disgusts me everytime I look at them. I can't tell you how many rolls of paper it took to clean the kitchen cabinets.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: Liz (quality@sssnet.com) on Fri, Aug 17, 01 at 11:27

You can clean the outlet covers, soak them in hot water and bleach; provided they're not wood. If they are wood paint them. I'd use Kilz on the ceiling, covers the stains. A good airing out of the house should help too. You could try Ozium in the furnace registers and replace the filter.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: grammyof14 (My Page) on Mon, Jul 29, 02 at 17:00

What about getting the smoke our of wood furniture, bought a piece online and it has that odor. Not bad mind you but enough. I don't allow smoking in "my" house

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: ranchhand (My Page) on Mon, Jul 29, 02 at 17:49

Hi Kendall...
I think you will be in pretty good shape when you are finished. Just one additional thought. If you have forced air heat, you may want to wipe out your cold air returns and heat vents, because the ciggy smoke circulates through and leaves residue.

Grammy: You can take a damp cloth with a small amount of detergent and wipe your wood furniture for the hard surfaces. For the upholstery, rent a Rug Doctor carpet cleaner and use the furniture attachment with some ammonia in hte cleaning solution. That will do it. If the smell isn't too bad, just faint, you can mix 50/50 water and clear ammonia and lightly mist the cushions, etc. Sometimes that's enough to make it liveable.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: Auntpat (My Page) on Tue, Jul 30, 02 at 21:37

We were both heavy smokers and gave up the nasty habit 4 years ago because of the damage smoke did to the walls, wallpaper, furniture, etc. The constant expense of re-painting and decorating finally got to us!!! Anyhow, either your painters or the store you are buying paint (if a do-it-yourself job) from will know what you have to put on the walls prior to painting. The painter's hate the smell of it, but it sure works. We've always hired it done, so don't know the name of the product, but there are more than one.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: Diggerb (My Page) on Thu, Aug 1, 02 at 17:10

you need to seal in the smell like a waterstain-- use
kilz/bullseye stuff as a primer after cleaning and before painting

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: marie921 (My Page) on Sat, Aug 3, 02 at 13:18

If smoke odors and stains bother you, why then would you even consider buying a house from a smoker? It should be obvious when you inspect the house if a smoker lived or lives there! After all, it's a buyers market and if enough people refuse to buy into these homes, it will force the owners to do the repairs themselves in order to sell.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: kasefofane (My Page) on Wed, Aug 7, 02 at 14:32

In some places it's a seller's market and there isn't time to be picky! We just closed on a house we bought as an income property and it was only during repainting that we realized that you can't paint over years of smoke staining. After 24 hours it comes right through the new white ceiling paint to make it beige. No smell anymore but it is frustrating not to have white ceilings.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: Brewbeer (My Page) on Fri, Aug 9, 02 at 9:45

I've experienced this same problem - three coats of latex-based ceiling paint, and the next day, you can see the brown bleading though. Disgusting.

To paint over smoke stained surfaces, use a fast drying oil based primer/sealer, or better yet, a lacquer based primer/sealer, to seal the surface. "Kilz" is one good brand that comes to mind. However, use plenty of ventilation while applying as the odor is very strong (open all windows, and put fans in them to exhaust the air), don't stop painting once you start (or the paint will immediately dry on the brush or roller), and be prepared to throw away the rollers and brushes at the end of each day of painting - my painting experience indicates that lacquer based products are next to impossible to completely clean off of brushes - but the lacquer based products will stop any stain from bleeding through. Once dry, top coat with two coats of high quality latex paint - I use Benjamin-Moore.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: heather74 (My Page) on Mon, Sep 9, 02 at 13:42

I had this problem when I purchased an SUV from a heavy smoker....I used febreeze heavy duty/deep cleaning to spray the entire cloth interior including the roof...I also used ammonia to clean the steering wheel and dash.

This seemed to work, the car no longer smells, but I'm not sure how ammonia would work on wood or sheetrock....

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: Reef33 (My Page) on Wed, Sep 18, 02 at 0:16

Just a thought.

After hearing what damage cigarette smoke does to a house, don't you wonder how anyone can suck that stuff into their lungs every day?

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: Nestor_Kelebay (My Page) on Sun, Sep 22, 02 at 2:06

Ken:

This is my first time in this forum, and perhaps it's good that I read this post.

I own a small apartment block, and I can tell you cigarette smoke is not hard to clean off of walls. The problem is that because it gets everywhere, you have to clean everywhere.

Mr. Clean and water will remove it from the walls.

Use a sponge mop the clean the ceiling with Mr. Clean and a squeegee on a pole to collect that dirty water so it drips onto the floor. Then use clean water to rinse with the sponge mop. I use a tool made especially for cleaning walls and ceilings called a Taski "Vertica" tool, which is basically a rubber squeegee that you can attach a vaccuum hose to to collect the liquids the squeegee wipes off.

Once the walls and ceilings are clean, most of the remaining cigarette odor will be coming from the carpet, and you can remove that by shampooing. Cigarette smoke dissolves readily in water, which is why it'll stain latex paints. Launder the drapes.

Also wipe off both sides of doors.

You can tell cigarette smoke staining on walls because it will result in small brown drops forming on the walls about a foot from the ceiling. Removing cigarette smoke is hard only because it gets on everything so you have to clean everything, not because it's difficult to remove from a surface.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: Lainy (My Page) on Sun, Oct 13, 02 at 19:48

One of the most difficult rooms to remove cigarette smell from is a bathroom, and the more area that's tiled, the worse it is to remove. Not because of the tile but because of the grout, especially if the grout was never sealed. My late husband was a heavy smoker and in particular used the main bathroom (which he completely tiled in brown and beige so that it "wouldn't show anything"!) as a major smoking room. Even after serious scrubbing, the bathroom still permanently smelled after almost a year of no one smoking in it! And if anyone was foolish enough to run a hot bath or a shower, the stench was unbearable because the steam just seemed to release it even more from the odor-saturated grout. I can't even describe how disgusting it was.

For a tiled smokers' bathroom area, then, I would recommend nothing less than a rip-out of the walls.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: JackieG (My Page) on Mon, Nov 25, 02 at 16:35

I had a similar problem and after trying just about every cleaning product known to mankind, I tried Formula 409 and it did an AMAZING job, especially on the woodwork. I highly recommend it for anyone facing a similar problem.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: sycamore_guy (My Page) on Wed, Dec 4, 02 at 11:14

All I can say is good luck. Long ago we bought a house from chain smokers. Ripped out every carpet. Scubbed every hard surface with TSP (still available then). Sealed with Kilz. Painted or wallpapered. Tiled some floors. Five years later you could still smell a hint of smoke if the house was sealed up for a few days.

We got the house at a good price, and sold it at a profit, but I suspect it STILL smells of smoke for whoever has it now. I think the smoke penetrated into the framing.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: johnbron (My Page) on Thu, Dec 12, 02 at 12:17

The best way to hide/mask the smell of cigarette smoke is to sit down in your BIG easy chair and light up a BIG FAT Cigar.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: worm (My Page) on Sat, Jan 4, 03 at 12:43

I'm amazed at all this. I smoked for 15 years in my current house and there was always smokers there. After quitting the smell dissipated fairly quickly and we've never had any problems.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: MKrup (My Page) on Fri, Jan 10, 03 at 8:50

Johnbron - best anwser I've ever seen on this board! I long for the days of smoking the occasional cigar in my house (5 year old girl and 2 year old boy have put a stop to this).

Mike K

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: earthworm (My Page) on Fri, Jan 10, 03 at 12:03

I'm amazed at all this. I smoked for 15 years in my current house and there was always smokers there. After quitting the smell dissipated fairly quickly and we've never had any problems..

You also may have lost your sense of smell, worm.
Different people smell things in varied levels, sometimes, I think it is a blessing not to be able to smell that well.!

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: worm (My Page) on Mon, Jan 13, 03 at 12:40

Actually, I think that the smell of cigarette smoke is often MORE offensive to ex-smokers than non-smokers. I have no trouble smelling cigarette smoke. Anyway, if people say the smell is still there, I guess it is. I was just commenting that it's hard for me to believe that after more than a couple of months, it's still there. Especially after painting, etc. I guess I'm of no help here.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: CindyBelleZ6NJ (My Page) on Mon, Apr 7, 03 at 18:07

All of these suggestions are good ones, here is one more-wash everything you can down with Simple Green, don't dilute it too much. Then do paint with a stain blocking primer first, like Kilz or Bin.

---

RE: Cigarette smell and a new home

• Posted by: garnet150 (My Page) on Wed, Apr 9, 03 at 1:09

I used a regular old everyday mop and light bleach solution to clean the ceilings of smoke. Worked great, didn't take long and no ladder to fall off! An old farmers trick is to put a drop of black paint in the white paint to keep it from yellowing, don't know if it will work in this situation. Also, try a drop of vanilla (real) in the paint, smells better than paint.

---

[Max McGarrity]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Damn, Lock, you're GOOD!

[Judith Anne]

;-D

[HamiltonJay]

Ah yes, more name calling, and hardly would I consider myself a Mogul... I would be going on just as much if it was about pet owners and people denying that smells and things affect the saleability of a home!

Just fixed up a house that absolutely REAKED of dog urine, previous owners owned 2 big dogs, and just locked em in the house while they would leave town for days at a time... was joyous time getting rid of the carpet, replacing the bad flooring and sealing it all up!

I have never cared whether you smoke or don't smoke in your house. Denying however that it doesn't impact a houses ability to sell is false.

Like I stated before, you think used car salesmen detail their new inventory and spray it with new car scent because they want to spend that money? Hell no, they know that a car sporting the nicotine/tar film and smelling of cigarettes won't sell as quickly or for as much as a clean fresh smelling car. Dirt and smell detract from ANY commodity for sale, period. Whether that smell be coming from smoke, pet urine, or sewage backup.

As to being corrupt, well keep up the name calling, it suits you, it really does, you wear it well.

So lets see, how am I corrupt, I buy beat up old delapidated properties, that are largely bringing down property values around them, I fix them up, (employing various contractors, purchasing hardware and products, providing income for numberous companies) bringing them back to great repair, raising the property values of the neighborhood and sell them to a new owner to live in and raise his family in, returning what is often a dead asset to the tax rolls which provides more revenue for the community, improving property values of the entire area raising the neighbors resale values.. and I get thanked by the people I sell the homes to, and the neighbors who are glad to see that beat up old problem house being fixed up, provide revenue for dozens of companies that helps them employ workers....

Yea, I am just one corrupt SOB... Damn, someone put me in JAIL... how dare I actually do things to improve a neighborhood and lives of a family wanting a home? Someone please put me away!! Stop me before I provide another family with decent affordable and safe housing to raise their kids in.

Save your crabs in the bucket, class envy mentality for DU.. its got no place here.

[in the Arena]

Now you're talkn'

[Max McGarrity]

HAHAHAHAHAHA!! Damn, Lock, you're GOOD!

[Gabz]

You are a joy to behold!!!!!!!!

Very well stated. You are definitely a better woman than I - I can't hold my temper as well as you.

[Max McGarrity]

I don't think any of us doubted the world has a wealth of hysterical nannies; were you just trying to prove it?

[HamiltonJay]

Lockjaw,

I said I can buy below the appraised value, not the true value... lets face it the only TRUE VALUE any asset has is what you can liquify it for. Banks and other things use a concept of appraisal as sort of an accepted way of evaluating the value of a held asset. You can have jewelry appraised, you can have houses appraised, etc etc, but that doesn't mean you'll get the appraised value when you sell, you may get more you may get less, it all depends on the factors of the sale and the condition of the market and the condition of the item.

No, I never stated "ALL" smokers homes are less valuable than "ALL" non smokers homes. If a smoker owns a home and does manage to keep it from smelling and being noticeably a smokers property, they will not likely suffer a penalty on the sale. I am also not arguing that that there are some smokers out there with pristine properties.. however by and large this is just not the case. It is rarely the case someone is shocked to find out the owner of a property is/was a smoker or is/was a pet owner, or is/was a heavy drug user... (yes, you get into rehabbing you'll learn all the signs of that too)


Lockjaw, I effectively believe I had stated condition is what plays the role. Many times I have stated it doesn't matter if it is smoke, cat or dog urine or whatever on this thread, if a property has a defect it is penalized for it at sale. I know for a fact that I stated it is not the fact the seller is a smoker but the fact the condition of the home that causes the lower demand and lower sale price in a reply somewhere in this thread.

So we are in agreement. I have never stated that the fact the previous owner simply because they were a smoker instantly lowered the demand for their property. Frankly anyone not wanting to buy for some percieved "health" reason simply because the previous owner smoked isn't a buyer you want to deal with anyway, because they are just going to come back to bite you later, almost guaranteed.

It has been my experience and others that overwhelmingly the condition of smokers homes on average are worse,just as people who have 10 cats are worse, and people who have several large dogs they keep inside are in general worse. It is indeed the condition that causes the decline in demand and price.. not simply the fact they smoke... but the condition that largely is the result of their smoking.

Smoking by and large physically impacts a property, yes there are those few who do go the extra mile to clean above and beyond.. but this is rarely the case, with smokers or non smokers frankly. if you are washing your walls and steaming your carpet once a year, and you are a 3-4 pack a day household, believe me, everyone who walks in your front door, knows you smoke.

[lewislynn]

I had a friend who bought the home of a smoker.

---

They didn't realize how much the smoke permeates the wood and drywall. Same can be said for used cars.

All lies. Smoke doesn't harm anything it touches or anyone who breathes it...

Don't take my word for it, ask any one of the smoke filled brains on this thread.

[VRWC_minion]

Just demonstrating that smoke is a real problem and will likely effect the value to some people. Or do you think these people are going to all this trouble because its in their heads ?

[dar29oh]

Thanks for the links. Thanks for the info. I'm zonkers as it nighttime. Took a brief look at things. Looks good. Probably will take over my day tomorrow. I am a refugee from academia. All of them think different from me. Anyone remember Dr. Richard Zeller? What a brilliant man forced to leave his tenured position because he was logical. He liked me. I miss him. Good luck to you all..

[Gabz]

And your arrogance continues.

At least you admit you know nothing about real estate in Delaware.

The major point, as I was attempting to show, about posting this article is the cronyism and corruption in the real estate industry in Delaware. I was attacked from the get go and unable to put forth the rest of my points, which everyone has ignored in favor of just knocking smokers, including yourself.

I never said I disagreed with your averages, I just said my reality was not the same as yours. You kept refering to reality, I gave you mine. Reality is not averages.

The real estate industry in Delaware is rife with corruption and it is very obvious about how properties in certain areas are marketed. Unfortunately for me the agency/agent I had signed with was bought up by one of the most corrupt agencies in the state, while I was still under contract. I had known for years about that agency and would never have willingly gone under contract with them.

As I stated in another post, I worked in real estate law, I know which agents/agencies were on the up and up and which were playing the line, and which crossed it.

Do I have a bad taste about realtors in Delaware? Not really. There are a few that give the rest a very bad name, and the problem is that the ones that are crooked are among the biggest ones. Unfortunatley for me one of them was the first one I was stuck with for quite some time.

As to your comments about assessments, I've got no clue what you are talking about, because I never mentioned it. I was talking about selling prices not appraisals or assessments.

This article only shows more of how the mega-buck anti-smoker cartel is finding further ways to demonize and denormalize smokers. Had this article been about pet woners there would never have been the venom expressedon this thread. In fact the thread would have probably died after about 30 posts.

Smokers are the PC whipping boys and when they are being attacked, everyone comes out of the woodwork.

[Arcturus]

Hey Ham,

Ever walk into a house with a fireplace?

I havn't, 'cause just strolling by one the street, minding my own business, I start to gag my guts out.

You need to reread Mein Kampf, my poor benighted friend.