The Neoconservative Cabal

AEI ^ | 9/3/03 | Joshua Muravchik

[William McKinley]

The author is pointing out what Elizabeth Drew was essentially doing.

[zacyak]

IMHO, the title badly serves the article, which is not anti-neoconservative.

I guess that you're one of the few who actually read this long piece; most of the others replying to it don't seem to have a clue as to what the author of it is really saying. Like Pavlov's dog, they see the word "Jew" in an article they don't understand (or haven't read) and start in with their spastic accusations of anti-semitism. Good thing they banned the Onion from this forum, I have a feeling the same people misinterpret the articles from there too.

[William McKinley]

Before I even try, you have to answer me what you mean by your question.

Do you mean 'neoconservative' in the original sense, or the way it is used by-and-large today?

[dennisw]

btttttttttttttttttt

[AndyJackson]

another distinguishing characteristic is that neoconservatives put greater stock in the political and ideological aspects of conflict

This tells us nothing. Any intelligent strategist, as a result of our lessons in Vietnam, puts great stock in understanding the political and ideological aspects of a conflict. So did McArthur. So have all great strategists. This is hardly a definition of neo-conservatism, unless neo-conservatism means not being stupid.

[billbears]

Who makes up this potent faction? Within the administration, Deputy Secretary of Defense Paul Wolfowitz is usually identified as the key actor, together with Richard Perle, a member and until recently the chairman of the Defense Advisory Board. A handful of other high-level Bush appointees are often named as adherents of the neocon faith, including Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith, Undersecretary of State John Bolton, National Security Council staff member Elliott Abrams, and Vice Presidential aide Lewis "Scooter" Libby. The American Enterprise Institute (AEI, where I work), the Weekly Standard magazine, and William Kristol's Project for a New American Century--all three rent offices in the same building--are often described as constituting the movement's Washington command center.

Bump

Neoconservatism is the first variant of American conservatism in the past century that is in the "American grain." It is hopeful, not lugubrious; forward-looking, not nostalgic; and its general tone is cheerful, not grim or dyspeptic. Its 20th-century heroes tend to be TR, FDR, and Ronald Reagan--Irving Kristol

Sorry but I'm not part of any group that considers FDR a hero. Never mind the 'foreign policy', if that's what you want to call the current actions by the Bush administration

[ellery]

My "protocols" comment was meant to agree with the author that neo-con slanders often root in anti-Semitism. I should have specified that.

[inPhase]

Neocons hang out together, main interest Israel. That is my opinion. They belong to the party of re-election also my opinion. The following is general, typical reading in the press, whether truth, untruth or opinion.

The ruling "cabal" refers to at least OSD's Perle, Wolf, Feith, Cambone. What I read and noted is typical,
e.g.,

http://washingtontimes.com/commentary/20030923-093039 9601r.htm

snippet

"...the armchair strategists whose knowledge of the Arab world didn;t match their Israeli expertise, had not thought through the Iraq war scenario betond the victory march through Bagdad..."

This is from the Washington Times not the Post.

[William McKinley]

"Puts great stock in" and "puts greater stock in" are not the same.

Let me give you a football analogy. Any intelligent football coach puts great stock in special teams and in running the ball. Bill Parcells puts greater stock in those things than most coaches.

[fqued]

either way.
I am in my 50s, voted for Reagan, Bush, Dole, Bush.
I am a conservative, and I have seldom seem the word "neo-conservative" used in a non-disparaging way.
Hugh Hewitt did refer to himself that way once, but it was unclear to me if it was tongue-in-cheek or not.
I have never read a good, concise, non-disparaging definition.

[AndyJackson]

The author is pointing out what Elizabeth Drew was essentially doing.

I know that. In doing so he provides a small window into his own view - which is likewise obscure. Going on at length about neo-conservatism, he tells us nothing about what neo-conservatism is.

[ellery]

The Washington Times is owned by the Moonies, who are rabid anti-Semites. I wouldn't put too much stock in their opinion of Israel-related issues.

[Helms]

"hidden Jewish interest underlying neocon ideas"

Irving Kristol, Jewish, is a/the godfather of Neoconservatism.

The again their are Jewish ideas of the Left as well. Notably Marx.

[William McKinley]

That is my opinion.

You are intitled to your own opinion, no matter how ignorant it is. You are even welcome to post your opinion on a thread about an article that details exactly why your opinion is ignorant.

[Helms]

Irving Kristol defined Neo-Cons as Liberals who were "mugged by reality" and changed course about 180 degrees.

[dighton]

I guess that you're one of the few who actually read this long piece; most of the others replying to it don't seem to have a clue as to what the author of it is really saying. Like Pavlov's dog, they see the word "Jew" in an article they don't understand (or haven't read) and start in with their spastic accusations of anti-semitism.

If anyone's a bit trigger-happy, I don't blame them. Given the countless recent "neocons are the devil" articles, it's only natural, on seeing that headline, to think "Oh, ****, not this again!"

[William McKinley]

The old definition was a former liberal (a 'new' conservative) who was very concerned with preventing damage to the social order that seemed to be occurring thanks to the policies of the New Deal and thanks to the spread of communism and socialism. They did not share the same aversion to the use of government for these ideals as traditional conservatives did, but they shared many of the same goals as traditional conservatives.

The new definition seems to be "anyone the left or the paleocons wants to demonize as bloodthirsty and powermad. Especially the Jews."

[AndyJackson]

"puts greater stock in"

Greater than whom. Greater than paleos who have already been described as putting more stock in overwhelming force. You seem to feel that this author is saying something. He tries, but fails. I still don't know what neo-conservatism is that distinguishes it from any other effort to provide a rational explanation for our foreign policy.

[sauropod]

Paleo-print ping.

[William McKinley]

I disagree with you wholeheartedly. He is responding to a label which has been foistered on people. It's like labelling a group of people something and then complaining when that group refuses to define the label.

One of his major points is one which I have made repeatedly-- the term neoconservative as it is used by the left and by the paleoconservatives has no meaning. You say he can't tell you what it is-- and that is because no one can. Any attempt to define neoconservatives omits the majority of the people who supposedly are neoconservatives.