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To: betty boop; Pietro; f.Christian; All
You have two great conversations going on here, betty boop! And if you don’t mind I’d like to put my “two cents” into the mix:

Resonance

On the basis of Genesis and what I have learned about cosmology and physics, I envision that the first element of creation (the big bang) was geometric and harmonic – which gave rise to wave functions and thus, energy, particles, etc. – the physical laws that make up the natural realm.

From Genesis 1 and the following verse we know that God spoke everything into being. We can even see sound waves in the cosmic microwave background.

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth. – Psalms 33:6

And of course resonance is at the heart of string theory.

On the other hand, I see man as much more than physical, and thus much more than resonance. Adamic man is unique because he has been given the breath of God (neshama):

And the LORD God formed man [of] the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. – Genesis 2:6

Therefore I see spirit of Adamic man as altogether non-corporeal, non-spatial, non-temporal.

Grace v Works

Certainly, I agree that we are saved by grace and not by works. If anyone could be good enough to get to heaven, then Christ died for nothing. That is the essential message of Romans 1-8. And it is summarized in Ephesians 2:8-9:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

And forgiveness is always there when we trip and fall, if we only ask:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. - 1 John 1:9

But there is an important caveat when a believer willfully defies the Word of God:

For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.

He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.

[It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God. - Hebrews 10:26-31

In the above passage, God is speaking to His own people – believers not unbelievers. I know of no Christian doctrine that disputes that point.

But there are at least three different views of the significance. To the Calvinists, it cannot happen because a person who truly believes would never willfully defy the Word and thus the warning is to those who profess but do not truly believe. To the Arminians, it means a believer could and would lose their salvation for willfully defying the Word. And to others, the passages mean that a believer who willfully defies God will be burdened with extraordinary suffering in this life.

The bottom line is that professing belief on the one hand – and willfully defying the Word on the other – is a troubling situation per se. I sincerely, earnestly and urgently pray for anyone in such a predicament.

If ye love me, keep my commandments. – John 14:15

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. - 1 John 2:4


219 posted on 10/03/2003 8:08:09 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: betty boop
Er, posts numbers 214 and 218 are directed to me, but are in reference to remarks made by you - so I imagine you will want to address them yourself. I will comment after you.

With regard to enlightenment and Christianity, you might find the following verses helpful:

Wherefore I also, after I heard of your faith in the Lord Jesus, and love unto all the saints, Cease not to give thanks for you, making mention of you in my prayers; That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints, And what [is] the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set [him] at his own right hand in the heavenly [places], - Ephesians 1:16-20

For [it is] impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put [him] to an open shame. - Hebrews 6:4-6

The other points I raised concerned the timing of Plato, history and the prophesy of Daniel at post 40.

220 posted on 10/03/2003 8:21:06 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl; DittoJed2; f.Christian; HalfFull; gore3000; xzins
The bottom line is that professing belief on the one hand – and willfully defying the Word on the other – is a troubling situation per se. I sincerely, earnestly and urgently pray for anyone in such a predicament.

so how do you reconcile your admiration of a Greek philosopher over the admonition of St Paul?

221 posted on 10/03/2003 8:24:23 PM PDT by JesseShurun (The Hazzardous Duke Maybe I really am Snowball. You'll never know)
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