Gubernatorial candidates spar in biggest debate of recall election

Sac Bee ^ | 9/24/03 | AP

[NormsRevenge]

The most-anticipated debate of California's recall campaign quickly descended into a squabble of overlapping attacks Wednesday, forcing the moderator to tame personal comments by four of the five leading candidates seeking to replace Gov. Gray Davis.

Lt. Gov. Cruz Bustamante, a Democrat, came under attack for taking millions of dollars in Indian casino money. Actor Arnold Schwarzenegger was criticized for supporting a divisive ballot initiative nine years ago that would have prevented services for the children of illegal immigrants. State Sen. Tom McClintock was told he had the facts backward on the economy, and independent Arianna Huffington was hit for barely paying income taxes.

[NormsRevenge]

It's more like a whack-a-mole-ocracy ;-)

No matter how many corrupt politicians ya toss out, twice as many sneak back in when ya turn your back

[My2Cents]

Arnold is a Republican. I'd like to know what you think a Republican is...He's registered Republican; has been since he got his citizenship. If you read his comments in the Wall Street Journal, he's most influenced by Adam Smith and Milton Friedman. He supports Pres. Bush. He's conservative on fiscal and economic issues. In any normal election, he'd be conservative enough for most conservatives (except for the "NEIN-Os" -- "Not Even In Name Only"). He's got more Republican support, both in grass roots organizations, and in office holders, than McClintock.

Arnold's going to win, so get used to it. (Or will you spend the next three years belly aching about Arnold like you probably do about Pres. Bush?)

[Revolting cat!]

The "biggest debate" would be one which included all 135 candidates, including Mary Carey and Bob Dole! I'd watch that! So much for democracy (or "republic" as the deep thinkers here are sure to correct you!)

[Graewoulf]

Plurality voting insures that Democracy will fail, that is that the majority will not rule. The minority will rule, and California is a perfect example of the minority ruling the majority.

Hence, change the rules so the winner MUST get 50 percent plus one vote to win ANY election in the Socialist Republic of California. The political parties, unions, and block-voting minorities will oppose it, so it must be a good idea.

[NormsRevenge]

California is a perfect example of the minority ruling the majority.

Kind of reminds one of the US Senate. ;-)

[pogo101]

Well, some have suggested that the replacement-of-Davis part of the ballot should have either

1. an "instant runoff" whereby voters indicate both their first choice AND a second choice. This is popular among academics but adds a good deal of complexity for less-savvy voters -- and may require big changes in voting mechanisms, some of which don't currently allow for "first choice" and "second choice" designations amongst candidates; or

2. a standard runoff. The disadvantage to this is that it takes weeks more time, during which period it's officially known that the governor is a lame duck.

What do you think should be done?

[Graewoulf]

California IS the future-shock to our Nation. Hence, my interest in your elections. Very scary!

[j.havenfarm]

I've changed my mind. I'm going to vote for Bustamante. Way I've got it figured, the Governor's salary is the only way he'll be able to afford a suit that fits. I think he got the one he was wearing tonight off a dead guy. As to the Senator, my opinion remains the same: He is a good, honorable, decedent, and wise man. He STILL doesn't have a prayer of winning, though.

[Graewoulf]

"What should be done?" That is up to y'all. In my humble, but ALWAYS correct opinion, I think the CEO of the seventh largest economy in the World deserves a majority vote of those voting.

How many runoffs will it take? As many as it takes. What else is more important than choosing a good CEO? Y'all figure it out.

[pogo101]

Personally I favor the instant runoff. I could vote

1. McClintock
2. Arnold

and Arnold would probably win, but in the "runoff" phase.

The problem with your approach -- "as many [runoffs] as it takes" -- is that it leaves the already-decided-to-be-recalled Governor paralyzed and, if not without power, certainly without influence. That's not good for the state, IMO.

[DoctorZIn]

Your One Stop Resource For All The California Recall News!

Want on our daily or major news ping lists? Freepmail DoctorZin

[Graewoulf]

"Instant" decisions such as opinion polls, expert analysis and quoted soundbites are good for ad-oriented TV channels, but are not suited for choosing a CEO of the seventh largest economy in the World.

The time, effort and money spent on choosing a CEO should approximate the value the voters place on the importance of the office.

If you like instant, carefree decisions, then be happy with whomever a minority chooses. Enjoy the democrats' paradise: The Socialist Republic of California!

[patriciaruth]

Probably every Arnold supporter would acknowledge that Tom won the debate

Yep, until the closing statements, when he cut his throat with the average nonpolitical viewer watching when he didn't elevate his message above his narrow political philosophy (which I happen to agree with on most points) to indicate that as Governor he would work on saving California's economy rather than pushing his personal political agenda.

Camejo was impressively dignified and cogent. Too bad he's a socialist idiot.

Cruz was incredibly wimpy.

Arianna her usual bitch self, but I thought I detected a gleam of hope in her mercenary eyes when Arnold said he had a part for her in Terminator IV.

It is a real pity that McClintock can't be elected in this Democrat state. (Please note that 3 of the 5 debators were not born in the United States, and one of the ones born here is a Democrat) But Arnold will certainly go to Tom for advice if we have a Governor Schwarzenegger in two weeks, although I'm worried about a Florida recount fiasco.

Tom will have a lot of power and input if Arnold wins.

[Reagan Man]

Even a broke clock is right twice a day.

In my opinion, in the last 50 years there has been two presidents that the American people had a personal attachment for, over their entire presidency. They were Eisenhower and Reagan. Through the years and with the help from the media, JFK has almost become a martyr of sorts. Clinton's presidency was based on lies and his ability to fool the people all the time.

[pogo101]

Uhhh ... I don't think you understand what an "instant runoff" is. It simply allows voters to vote for their first and second choices for an office, and then, if no "first choice" gets a majority, looks to the SECOND choices of the voters. Formulae vary. It's a little late for me to do so here, esp. with 2 glasses of wine in me. But consider doing a Google for "instant recall" and seeing what you find.

[JustPiper]

Actor Arnold Schwarzenegger was criticized for supporting a divisive ballot initiative nine years ago that would have prevented services for the children of illegal immigrants

Like that's a bad thing?

Huffington continuously targeted the Bush administration as the source of the state's problems, connecting Schwarzenegger to the president's policies.
The actor quickly shot back that she was in the wrong place.
"If you want to campaign against Bush, go to New Hampshire," Schwarzenegger said.

So, 'why' is everyone down on Arnold?

The tension between the two peaked when Schwarzenegger began to cut Huffington off and she replied, "This is the way you treat women, we know that. But not now."
Statham penalized Huffington and gave Schwarzenegger a chance to reply, providing another opening for one of his frequent movie references.
"I just realized that I have a perfect part for you in Terminator 4," he said to Huffington, as the audience laughed.

[goldstategop]

Arnold's sense of humor and his larger than life persona was on show tonight. None of the others came close. I wouldn't be so quick to say he closed the sale but he convinced Californians that he's far from being a lightweight and mindless actor who just want to buy with his millions the California Governor's Office. Large Breasts never convinced people we would be anything but a continuation of the Gray Davis Era under another name. Pete Camejo and the Greek Harpy only reinforced the perception some people still push ideas that have only gotten this state into deep trouble. Of course Arnold is not a dream conservative candidate. But he's straight from Central Casting and fits what California is now.

[My2Cents]

Yep, until the closing statements, when he cut his throat with the average nonpolitical viewer watching

Precisely. His comments resonated with conservatives, but...big deal. He needed to reach out beyond the "choir."

Arianna her usual bitch self

My wife was more incensed than I was about her comment on how Arnold "treats women." Arnold's comeback showed great class. I predict he picks up more womens' votes because of Arianna's bitchy attacks, and his dignity and humor under the pressure.

Tom will have a lot of power and input if Arnold wins.

It's pretty clear that Arnold has great respect for Tom.

[My2Cents]

So, 'why' is everyone down on Arnold?

Everyone isn't. Here on FR, McClintock has more support, but the Arnold support is strong and consistent. Among conservatives in California, a recent poll shows that Arnold has more conservative support statewide than McClintock.

[ambrose]

What happens if McClintock wins the plurality of votes, but the voters reject the recall of Davis?

We'd be screwed.