Posted on 09/24/2003 3:06:09 PM PDT by Lorianne
A heated battle has been joined in the Vatican between moderates and conservatives over a directive, called for by the Pope, that would bar altar girls and stop millions of Roman Catholics around the world dancing, or even clapping, in their churches. _________________
Anger at Vatican plan to ban altar girls
John Hooper in Rome Wednesday September 24, 2003 The Guardian
A heated battle has been joined in the Vatican between moderates and conservatives over a directive, called for by the Pope, that would bar altar girls and stop millions of Roman Catholics around the world dancing, or even clapping, in their churches. The document would also clamp down on adult, lay pastoral assistants. It would forbid priests during sermons quoting from ethical texts other than the Gospels. And it would rank services jointly celebrated with Protestant ministers or Orthodox priests alongside black masses as one of the four "most serious" abuses
In a clear effort to block, or, at least dilute, the measure, a leaked text of the draft was this week published in Jesus, the monthly review of the Society of St Paul, an international Catholic organisation.
One Vatican insider was yesterday quoted by the Rome newspaper Il Messaggero as saying it contained "idiocies so mad as to incite fear".
The document was compiled by officials from two Vatican ministries, responsible for doctrine and liturgy, after the Pope called earlier this year for new guidelines on the way masses are held. Many clerics had complained that liberalisation and experiment in recent decades had left them not knowing what was allowed.
Catholics in western, and particularly northern, Europe are likely to be most taken aback by the Vatican officials' determination to block one of the few means of participation in church ritual for women.
The draft text states that priests should only allow girls to help them at mass if they have a special dispensation from their bishop and there is "just cause", which Italian commentators took to mean an absence of boys. According to the leaked draft, priests ought "never to feel themselves obliged to recruit girls".
In developing countries, where the Catholic church now has most of its members, the most controversial injunction will be the one banning "applause and dance within the place of worship, even outside the celebration of [mass]".
Dance is an integral part of worship in Africa and Asia and has figured in numerous services attended by the Pope. Clapping is also commonplace in Italy at weddings, baptisms and even during funerals.
The draft "instruction" was reportedly tabled in June and came in for stiff criticism at a meeting of the two departments. A final version is due to be published this year.
Outstanding analogy.
It's all of a piece.
My father used to tell a joke about Clare Booth Luce meeting the Pope - eventually somebody took her aside and said, "but, Clare, he's ALREADY Catholic . . . "
:-D
My parents are fortunate to live in a different Episcopal diocese that is very conservative and in a parish where the vestry and senior warden are somewhere to the right of St. Anselm - they have already withheld their National contributions and await further developments.
Our current parish is hopeless - no point in even arguing with the rector, who belittles any who disagree with him - and our bishop is worse, a two-faced mealy-mouthed panderer. So whatever develops from the conferences in Texas and Canterbury, we will shake the dust of this parish from our sandals and hit the road. A shame, really -- we've been here 23 years. At this point, though, the only thing I will miss is the choir. . . it is the best I have ever sung in (and that includes a Cathedral parish and my college Schola Cantorum).
But I don't know if my husband is ready to go for that -- his mom is Catholic, but he was raised Methodist (his dad was a preacher's son). I'm fortunate to have had 4 years of Latin and 2 of Greek, so I'm good to go.
Sadly, this is the way it seems to proceed all too often.
It is incorrect to suggest that the use of altar girls has caused the vocations crisis - on its face, in fact, since vocations began plummeting in the 1960s's and altar girls have only been authorized over the last several years. I would even hesitate to say that it has exacerbated the crisis, since we have yet to have an age cohort that was eligible to serve as altar boys during the current period reach the age for seminary - at least in any real numbers.
However: this will not always be the case.
Given the grave crisis in vocations - whatever the cause - it simply makes little sense to further diminish the pool of potential priests by reducing the number of slots available to boys.
The original policy was promulgated only as a last resort of sorts. Yet this is not how it is being used in North American parishes. My parish is a large one, 2,500 families or so, and yet there are more altar girls than boys. And it is not for lack of boy applicants; there are some on the waiting list. Though given that there also seem to be no restrictions on footwear or dress underneath, it's hardly the only problem they have with altar servants.
There's no denying that progressives in the Church have backed this move as a first step toward ordination of woman. I do not doubt that many of those practicing it have no such intention; nevertheless, it's the first chip in the edifice. Once one is used to seeing girls or young women on the dias, it becomes less of a leap of imagination to conceive of women wearing the collar.
There's also no doubt that the Church has far graver problems facing it than the widespread abuse of the altar girl policy. But I fail to see why different problems cannot be attacked independently.
Sounds that way to me, too.
MOre likely the provision banned using "other stuff" INSTEAD of the appointed readings from Scripture--a practice to be found hither and yon around the Church of the PoofterWonkLiturgists.
The Catholic Church does not depend on women for its "survival." It depends on Jesus Christ who founded it and said that the gates of hell would not prevail against it. It has existed for almost 2,000 years. If you're waiting for it to disappear, I wouldn't hold my breath.
Does a psychiatrist need to have first-hand experience of schizophrenia in order to effectively treat a schizophrenic patient? By way of hearing confessions and ministering to many different couples, priests hear and observe all sorts of personal difficulties and situations. As another poster said, human nature is pretty stable. An astute and devout priest will usually get right to the heart of the problem. Unfortunately, there aren't as many of them around as there used to be.
We in the Episcopal church have had the opportunity to observe the dynamic of priestesses in action. As a hippie child of the 60s and 70s, I initially saw nothing wrong with it, but actual practice has changed my mind. My advice: don't go there.
It is sound Biblically, if being an alter boy (or alter server) is supposed to be sort of a pre-cursor to the vocation of the priesthood. Women are not supposed to be in pastoral positions in the church body. Woman are allowed to minister to other women, but not to men. To me, having girl alter servers is the first step to accepting women priests. Incrementalism, as practiced by the Fabian socialists. To me, it's part of the whole "goddess" movement.
If these retrogressions are imposed, I'm sure Rome will be able to advance arguments that will be accepted by clergy and laity alike. Right? Just like the overwhelming acceptance of Humanae Vitae?,
And I am absolutely sure that your obedience to Rome will prevail, too.
I can explain away altar girls, but not resricting communion in the hand nor communion under both kinds.
What's more, I won't even try.
Jesus told us to reject selfish desires and worldiness
I merely suggested that the clergy ought to be practicing what they preach.
Just so you understand, stanz, the Church of Christ was never, ever meant to be 'attractive' in the context you desire it to be.
Just so you understand, if the Catholic church wants to be in existence in the millenium to come, it had better consider its appeal to future worshippers. This doesn't mean that Jesus is left out of the equation. Rather, it means that more time should be spent conveying Jesus's teachings rather than defending the wayward lifestyles of many members of the clergy who have disgraced themselves, victimized young people, and demoralized the church.
You seek to fullfil the desires of your pride and ego by finding "equality" in the Church, rather than in humble submission to lawful Church authority and in prayer.
The crux of the whole problem stems from the "lawful church authority" which has forsaken the faithful in order to protect its own. Where's the humility in that?
No. There was no mention of suicide. And, to the best of my knowledge, it’s still considered to a mortal sin.
My two cents' worth:
Each Catholic church building is a consecrated House of the Lord--it houses He Who created all, and sustains all. Thus, it is literally a "sacred space," which admittedly is not a concept Americans grasp easily.
In addition, the Mass is the summit of RC worship, the re-presentation of the Sacrifice of Calvary. The Mass, then is also "sacred time."
Finally, the applause is NOT for God's work--it is usually for man's work--a sermon, a retirement, or some honor, such as marriage.
While these events may well deserve the support of Catholics, it is not appropriate in that time, in that space.
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