Posted on 09/22/2003 2:32:23 PM PDT by Ed_in_NJ
Sorry to be so short on facts, but a new book ("Blood Money") charges LBJ with ordering the JFK hit.
The author is the former business partner of the man he accuses of setting it up (??? Clark), and claims there is no doubt in his mind as to the truth of the allegation.
Apparently LBJ was about to be indicted on another murder charge, and saw his ascendency to POTUS as his way out.
You don't suppose that the author needs a reason to make money from book sales do you? I mean, like there haven't already been a zillion books out blaming everybody but Lee Oswald for the hit. (Read Posner's book, at least he stuck to the facts.)
And he missed on the first shot, and the second should would likely have been non-fatal.
I'm still trying to figure out where the "world class precision" comes in.
Plus while the target was "moving", it wasn't moving very fast, and it was moving almost directly away from Oswald, making it almost motionless in the scope -- a far easier proposition than a target which is moving laterally. Finally, after the first two shots, the driver of the limo foolishly *slowed down* to assess the situation, which made Oswald's final (and fatal) shot even easier. Big mistake.
Oswald qualified as a 'Sharpshooter' in USMC boot and later got a pizza box. That's perfectly within the expectations of the shots made at Dealey Plaza.
What's so mathematically impossible about a five-inch group at 88 yards from a middle-of-the-road USMC vet, Mister Sniper?
Then who *are* you quoting?
The Manlicher Carcano is an innacurate piece of crap. Anyone who has ever fired that weapon can tell you that.
It's not the finest rifle out there, surely, but are you trying to tell us that it's so inaccurate that one could not even hit a man-sized target with it at 100 yards using a 4x scope and a bench rest? Pull the other leg now...
Oswald couldn't hit a stationary target at 200 Meters with an extremely accurate weapon (The M14).
Where'd you get *that* nonsense?
He [Oswald] was also trained in the use of the M1 rifle (2). On December 21, 1956, after three weeks of training, he shot 212, two points over the score required for a "sharpshooter" qualification, the second highest in the Marine Corps (3). Such a score indicated that from a standing position, he could hit a ten-inch bulls-eye, from a minimum of 200 yards, eight times out of ten (4).There's no way in hell that he's going to hit a moving target 6 floors below him on the 1st, 2nd, 3rd or any other shot unless he's using a MK19 40MM Grenade launcher that he can then use the impact of the rounds to walk it into his target.[...] Those in charge of the marksmanship branch who were familiar with Oswald's record praised his ability and said he was easily capable of carrying out the JFK assassination. It "was an easy shot for a man with the equipment he had and his ability," said Sgt. [James] Zahm [the NCO in charge of the marksmanship training unit]. Major Eugene Anderson, of the marskmanship branch, said the assassination shots "were not particularly difficult" and that, based on his Marine record, "Oswald had full capabilities to make this shot."
-- "Case Closed", Gerald Posner, p. 20.
(2) Testimony of Maj. Eugene Anderson, WC Vol. XI, p. 302.
(3) Testimony of Lt. Col. Allison Folsom, WC Vol. VIII, p. 304.
(4) Testimony of Lt. Col. Donovan, WC Vol. VIII, p. 296.
Unless you're going to try to argue that no Marine would be able to hit a man-sized target at 100 yards with a 4X scope and a bench rest, you're just being rididulous here.
If you wish to believe the Fairy Tale that the Warren Commission fostered on this country then be my guest, it's well within your rights. But don't tell me that Oswald made that shot. He didn't, it was almost mathematically impossible for him to do the shooting based on his level of skill.
Wow, I didn't realize that Marines who qualifed as "sharpshooter" grade sucked so badly at shooting. I'll keep that in mind, thanks for the tip.
Dallas Post Office...November 1963....
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There is nothing like a little white lie to oil the wheels of commerce and the people at Klein's were not above spicing up their marketing copy with a few harmless untruths. The banner on their full page spread in the February 1963 issue of the American Rifleman magazine proclaimed: RECEIVED TOO LATE FOR THE HUNTING SEASON....Klein's loss is your gain!
KLEIN'S RECEIVE AN ORDER FROM DALLAS
On 13th March 1963, Klein's received an envelope containing a small order slip clipped from their full-page advertisement in the February issue of American Rifleman. Mr A. Hidell of Dallas, Texas, had enclosed a US Postal Money Order no. 2,202,130,462 to the value of $21.45 in payment for one Mannlicher Carcano 6.5MM Carbine with scope as advertised with reference no. C20-T750 priced at $19.95 with an additional $1.50 postage and handling. Though the ad offered ammunition and a clip as added extras Mr Hidell did not order either.
On March 20th 1963, Klein's dispatched a Mannlicher Carcano, apparently bearing the serial no. C2766, to the order of Mr Hidell, whose postal address was P.O. Box 2915, Dallas, Texas.
The case against Lee Harvey Oswald depends entirely upon establishing a solid chain of evidence that links him to the Mannlicher Carcano dispatched by Klein's to the order of A. Hidell and places him (Oswald) on the 6th floor of the TSBD with that weapon at 12:30 PM on November 22nd 1963. It will become clear that no such chain of evidence exists.
Lee Harvey Oswald rented Dallas Post Box 2915 on October 9th 1962 using his own name. Effectively, the address A. Hidell, PO Box 2915, never existed. In order to rent a post box, Oswald was required to fill out Form 1093 (Application for Post Office Box). This was a multi-part form. Part 3 of the application form included a section where the applicant could nominate other persons authorized to collect mail from that particular box. Harry D. Holmes, Dallas Postal Inspector, [also moonlighting as an FBI Informant] told the WC that:
"Form 1093 includes a place for name of person entitled to receive mail through the box other than the applicant himself."
The ability of Lee Harvey Oswald to collect a package addressed to A. Hidell at P.O. Box 2915 depends entirely upon A. Hidell being listed as an authorized person in Part 3 of Oswald's application. It should have been an easy matter to verify this by reference to Part 3 of Oswald's application but, as Postal Inspector Harry Holmes told the WC, Part 3 had been destroyed:
"...when the box has been closed, Postal Regulations require that they tear off Part 3 and throw it away."
Box 2915 had been closed by Oswald on May 14th 1963.
Fortunately, Postal Inspector Holmes is not the final authority on Postal Regulations. The Postal Manual, Section 846.53b, states quite unequivocally that "Part 3 of the box rental application, identifying persons other than the applicant authorized to receive mail must be retained for 2 years after the box is closed."
Harry D. Holmes lied about postal procedures and the WC accepted that lie as fact.
A week after the assassination Harry D. Holmes was quoted in a New York Times article where he stated:
"No one other than Oswald was authorized to receive mail at that box".
Holmes could not have made this statement unless he had seen Part 3 of Oswald's application form after the assassination.
Further confirmation that Part 3 of Oswald's application form existed after the assassination and that A. Hidell was not an authorized nominee can be found in the Warren Report (WR). To refute claims made by writer Thomas G. Buchanan in his book "Who Killed Kennedy?", the FBI produced a document that specifically addressed 32 different allegations made by Buchanan. Published in the WR, this document CE 2585, contained the following:
12. CLAIM: The Post Office in Dallas to which Oswald had the rifle mailed was kept both under his name and that of A. Hidell.
INVESTIGATION: Our investigation has revealed that Oswald did not indicate on his application that others, including an A. Hidell, would receive mail through the box in question, which was Post Office Box 2915 in Dallas.
As with Harry D. Holmes revelations to the New York Times, the FBI could not have made this determination unless they had seen Part 3 of Oswald's application form. The only conclusion it is possible to draw from this information is that Part 3 of Oswald's application still existed after John F. Kennedy was assassinated and that Harry D. Holmes and the FBI knew as much. Harry Holmes' story that Postal Regulations required Part 3 of the form to be destroyed when the box is closed was an act of perjury that attempted to hide the fact that an important piece of evidence had been destroyed sometime after the assassination.
It cannot be stated strongly enough that Part 3 of Oswald's application form is the one document that underpins the entire chain of evidence linking Oswald to the Carcano and the assassination of President John F. Kennedy. If A. Hidell was authorized to collect mail at Post Box 2915, then Oswald could have taken delivery of the Carcano by masquerading as Hidell. If A. Hidell was not authorized to collect mail at that box then Oswald would not have been able to take delivery of the Carcano package.
In practice, when the Carcano package addressed to A. Hidell at Box 2915 was received, Post Office staff would have checked the appropriate documentation. They would have noted that Box 2915 was rented in the name of Oswald and that A. Hidell was not authorized to collect mail. An additional check may have been made to establish if A. Hidell was a previous renter of Box 2915 who had left a forwarding address. In the event that these checks proved negative the Carcano package would have been returned to sender.
Even exercising great generosity of spirit it is difficult to see any explanation for the destruction of Part 3 of the Oswald application form other than to sustain a false chain of evidence. The WC accepted as fact the sworn testimony of Harry D. Holmes that Part 3 of the form had been destroyed legitimately in line with Postal Regulations. In addition, they allowed Holmes to create a false mechanism by which Oswald could still have collected the Carcano package. This was typical of the "belts and braces" approach the WC used to cover all angles.
Holmes claimed that when a package was received, a notice would be placed in the relevant box to advise the holder that a package was waiting to be collected. This would be done, Holmes claimed, regardless of who the package was addressed to, authorized or not. Thereafter, the holder of the box would only have to produce the notice at the collection window to take delivery of the package. Possession of the notice was deemed to be proof of entitlement.
This is how the WC created the foundations of the chain of evidence linking Oswald to the Carcano. It is ironic that the WR could publish the testimony of Holmes claiming that Part 3 of Oswald's application form had been destroyed and the FBI document, CE 2585, proving it had not.
All evidence is not equal and in seeking to take a view it is necessary to decide what weight can be placed on any particular piece of evidence. The evidence that Lee Harvey Oswald could not have taken delivery of the Carcano package by any known official means is very strong indeed. It is strengthened even more by the knowledge that Harry D. Holmes offered perjured testimony and that a crucial piece of evidence, Part 3 of the Oswald's application form, was destroyed during the post-assassination period.
I think the only plausible interpretation of the facts is that Oswald could not, and did not, take possession of the Carcano package. To sustain the illusion that Oswald did collect the Carcano package, vital evidence was destroyed and additional evidence was fabricated.
The Post Box evidence is not the only evidence the WR offers to link Oswald to the Carcano. Other evidence includes the infamous "backyard photographs", the testimony of the DeMohrenschildts and Marina Oswald, the mysterious contents of the brown paper bag Oswald is alleged to have carried into the TSBD on the day of the assassination, the analysis of the handwriting on the Klein's order slip and the apparent linkage between Oswald and the A. Hidell alias.
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Soooooo...seems our Marxist-Leninist patsy never even OWNED a crappy Mannlicher-Carcano rifle! He certainly didn't own any of the paraphernalia normally associated with such ownership...like cleaning kits or ammunition.
The officers who supposedly FOUND the rifle in the TSBD 'Sniper's Nest' identified it as a 'Mauser' while the FBI had simultaneously SET THE FIX to Oswald with a Mannlicher-Carcano! Imagine the conversation..."NO, you idiot, it was a Mannlicher-Carcano...tell them it was a Mannlicher-Carcano!!" Reports had to be destroyed...different shell casings placed in the Evidence Room...more witnesses killed...the Dallas Police must have been so busy planting & substituting evidence that weekend, it's no wonder Ruby got into the garage to off Oswald. By Sunday, Oswald HAD to be eliminated...he didn't know much, but what he did know was way TOO much.
I collect milsurp C&R rifles. I have shot or owned just about all of them at various times. I still have most of them. I believe that Oswald could have had similar satisfactory results with a Japanese 'Last Ditch' rifle mounted with a 4x telescope or even a Ruger Mini-14.
You're trying to create a false-dilemma by insisting that the shot made by Oswald was such that he needed to be born with a rifle in his hands to make that shot and that his weapon was a heap.
I reject that notion. He did miss once, after all.
If it's so 'mathematically-impossible', let's see your math.
Answer my question, then I'll be glad to address yours. Until then, I will consider you someone who has no real interest in having an actual two-sided discussion.
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