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Should only healthy babies be born?
BBC ^ | 19 SEP 03 | By Kirsten Lass

Posted on 09/21/2003 11:50:50 PM PDT by greydog

BBC Radio Current Affairs

Medical science has advanced to such a stage that we are within a few years of being able to detect more and more diseases and disabilities in the womb.

Already some women found to have babies with abnormalities are under pressure to terminate.

Is it right that we should strive to create a world increasingly free of disability and disease in this way?

Currently, tests for Down's Syndrome are offered to women believed to have a high risk of the genetic condition, and by 2004, the government has pledged that every pregnant woman will have the opportunity to have the test.

The vast majority of women choose to terminate a foetus when they know for sure their baby has Down's Syndrome.

You're talking about eradicating a whole section of the population - it's state sanctified eugenics

But the Five Live Report has found at least some women are being pressurised to terminate.

And critics of the screening process say there is a presumption among some of the medical profession that women will terminate - a presumption that will extend to more and more abnormalities as scientific advance continues.

Professor Hilary Rose, a sociologist with the Open University, believes women often find themselves on a "conveyor belt" they can't get off, and are overwhelmed by a system that can assume they want to terminate if abnormalities are found.

"That doesn't seem to me to be a healthy way to run an antenatal service", she says.

Some women actually feel pressurised toward a decision to terminate even when the problem with their baby is correctable.

'Terminate your son'

Lynn and David were delighted when they found out Lynn was expecting their first child. But their joy didn't last long.

"Within two or three minutes, the radiographer who was doing the scan said, 'Ah, there's a bit of a problem, there's something wrong with your baby's bowel'," said Lynn.

The baby had exomphalos - a condition where the abdominal organs grow outside the body.

The couple was offered three choices - to do nothing, to have another test to see if there were further problems, or to terminate.

They were also told their baby could have corrective surgery after it was born.

But Lynn and David felt the hospital was pushing them towards just one option.

As Lynn remembers: "It was like 'Termination' - big capital letters. 'It's not worth it, just get rid of it now dear. And then you can try a bit later on for another baby'."

David agrees they "felt at every single stage [the hospital staff] thought the best option would be termination."

But they refused to terminate and Lynn gave birth to a boy. William's condition was serious and he needed several operations.

"Sometimes I felt selfish", Lynn explains, "and thought why have I done this, to make your child suffer like that and maybe it would have been better to have spared him this."

She cries as she thinks back to the tense times when they carried him into the operating theatre.

But their son is now a healthy, happy three-year-old.

David stresses they both feel they made the right decision.

"While you're going through that in the hospital, you think why the heck have we done this, we're making this little lad suffer," he said.

"But when you see him being cheeky and smiling at the nurses, we know we were spot on."

Some believe that as we offer the chance to terminate for more conditions, society is becoming increasingly intolerant towards babies who are born with abnormalities.

Nazi echoes

Bill Albert, from the Council of Disabled People, believes we need to "face up to what's going on and not say this is about choice, this is about elimination".

Eugenics is the attempt to create fine healthy children and that's everyone's ambition

He says what is happening has echoes of eugenics - the idea developed over a century ago that we could create the perfect human race by encouraging people with desirable genes to have more children.

The Nazis took this to extremes and killed people they thought were imperfect.

"You're talking about eradicating a whole section of the population" says Mr Albert, "It's state sanctified eugenics".

Eugenics is a term that John Harris, a bioethicist at Manchester University is also prepared to use, but sees this as a laudable aim.

"Eugenics is the attempt to create fine healthy children and that's everyone's ambition."

He believes couples who choose to have babies even when there are problems are "misguided" and the more we can screen out disability, pain and suffering the better.

"We're not trying to do this through killing people or eliminating individuals, we're trying to do this by making choices about which people will exist in the future."

That's not a future sociologist Hilary Rose wants to be part of. She's worried we might end up terminating all foetuses that aren't perfect.

"We need badly to stand back and look at the whole picture", she says with some despair.

"After all, we don't have to take up everything science and technology offers us."


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: abortion; abortionlist; eugenics; prolife; transhumanism
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To: greydog
Wow! Just this past Saturday, a guy waiting outside the abortion clinic asked me to stop picketing the place until his wife came out and got in the car. In fact, he actually wrote out a sign and held it up near my own until I agreed to leave. The sign I carry reads, "Please don't kill your baby." His sign read, "After 14 years of trying, we finally got a baby, and the baby had Down's Syndrome. Be compassionate." I'm sure he was convinced killing that baby was somehow "compassionate."
41 posted on 09/22/2003 9:39:02 AM PDT by madprof98
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To: Coleus; greydog

Boy's letter on abortion rights wins him trip to D.C.


42 posted on 09/22/2003 10:00:20 AM PDT by Incorrigible
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To: Noachian
Some believe that as we offer the chance to terminate for more conditions, society is becoming increasingly intolerant towards babies who are born with abnormalities.

You're spot on in bringing up the health insurance aspect of this (re #33) -- I fear we're not far off from the day when insurance won't cover neonatal abnormalities that could have been "corrected" through abortion. This will be esp. true when (not if) we get stuck with nationalized healthcare.

43 posted on 09/22/2003 10:20:22 AM PDT by workerbee
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To: Trailerpark Badass
Anyone who starts with an argument like that has no heart at all. I hate the welfare system as much as anyone else, but I would never suggest a welfare mom have an abortion just to save tax dollars. I would, however, support the state giving them birth control pills or some type of contraception to save us all money. I'm not sure if they do that or not already. Abortion as a birth control method annoys me. Up in Canada, the government will even pay for abortions. If they start doing that here, I'm going to start thinking about moving to another country.
44 posted on 09/22/2003 10:32:39 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: agrace
"I have a hard time believing that the "vast majority" would choose to abort Downs babies as the article stated."

Well, the article is from BBC so it's not talking about women here in the US doing that. Maybe over there women do that more often?
45 posted on 09/22/2003 10:34:32 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: greydog
Medical science has advanced to such a stage that we are within a few years of being able to detect more and more diseases and disabilities in the womb.

Imagine the following scenario:

Mr. and Mrs. Smith, it's a boy. As far as we can tell it has normal cognative skills and is developing all of its body parts normally. It is, however, gay.

Shalom.

46 posted on 09/22/2003 10:36:40 AM PDT by ArGee (Hey, how did I get in this handcart? And why is it so hot?)
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To: kaylar
"Who knows...Maybe other forms of "defectiveness" may some day be correctable, too. "

My hubby's younger brother is mentally disabled. He is mentally about like a 10yr old except that he can't read or write. It was genetic so the doctors think it may have been caused by lack of oxygen during birth. (it was 35yrs ago so they didn't monitor that kind of thing during labor like they do now) That has my hubby really on the fence about stem cell research because he's read that they can grow new brain cells with it that would have fixed his brother's problems or could fix them in the future. (i haven't really read up on it so I don't know that much on the details)
47 posted on 09/22/2003 10:39:12 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: greydog
Those who propose this are probably exocephalos.
48 posted on 09/22/2003 10:44:09 AM PDT by Old Professer
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To: honeygrl
If they could grow stem cells to develop new brains, we should insist that the first batch be administered to Democrats.
49 posted on 09/22/2003 10:46:35 AM PDT by Old Professer
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To: madprof98
He obviously hadn't spent too much time around someone who actually had down's or had someone explain to him that the testing for down's prior to birth isn't always correct.
50 posted on 09/22/2003 10:55:03 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: Old Professer
Yes, they are obviously missing a few needed cells in there.
51 posted on 09/22/2003 10:56:51 AM PDT by honeygrl
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To: Billthedrill
Hawking's condition was/is not detectable in the womb. Stephen Hawking was a normal boy. He was diagnosed with ALS when he was 21. As far as the contributions he has made to society since being far from "normal", good point.
52 posted on 09/22/2003 11:03:46 AM PDT by Cooter
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To: greydog
This article points out the big fat lie in the word "choice". I hear pro-'choice' proponents all the time proclaiming who should and who should not give birth based on all sorts of irrelevant criteria not limited to babies with potential medical problems.

Indeed our entire society "pressurizes" women (and men)toward abortion if they are "poor" or if the baby is perceived to interver with "success" of its parents. The pressure towards abortion is all over our society. New medical technologies will just make it moreso.
53 posted on 09/22/2003 11:14:16 AM PDT by Lorianne
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To: Coleus
Thanks for the heads up!
54 posted on 09/22/2003 1:57:48 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: sweetliberty; honeygrl
In Europe one never knows. I certainly wouldn't think it to be true here. Those people are a different breed it seems. It is sad beyond words that we are even having this discussion.

I believe that Europe actually has much lower rates of abortion than the US.

55 posted on 09/24/2003 3:26:05 AM PDT by gd124
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