U.S. jobs: Next stop, India?

MySanAntonio.com ^ | 09/21/2003 12:00 AM | By Sanford Nowlin and Travis E. Poling

[lelio]

Why should I care about these $60,000/yr jobs being lost? I'm retiring soon. I want the cheapest damn price for every service I get, for every article of clothing that I buy. Why should I sympathize with these guys? It's everybody for themself in this economy.

I'll refrain from asking if you're relishing in schadenfreude, and ask more about your statement of "Its everyone for themselves in this economy."

What do you think that means? That you're entitled to own products made by slaves as some inalienable right? Or that you think that we should lower our standards of living just because everyone else is lower than ours?

What do you think is going to become of the US when all we care about is "getting the best damn product for the cheapest price"? When all that's valued in this country is the lowest price you get can get for a trinket? Is that a country you want to live in? Perhaps you don't care about the long term aspects of this as you're retiring soon, but I would hope others aren't as falsely selfish as you.

I say falsely as I'm a selfish person, but I don't put getting cheap products at the top what I want. I'm far more selfish about protecting the standard of living for all Americans, and I believe that's accomplished by not sitting idly by while every industry is looking towards China and India.

And on a practical side, what do you think is going to happen when the 2.5M people laid off grows and grows? They sure aren't going to continue voting in Republicans that sat there dumbfounded as their jobs were being shipped offshore. Think FDR II but bigger.

[lelio]

Outsourcing to India is but a symptom of a very large government-induced problem.

So the major difference between his $65k salary and a worker's $6500 salary in India is due to government induced problems?

[Texaggie79]

Do you support Affirmative Action?

[lelio]

nope.

[nutmeg]

ping!

[Texaggie79]

The question was rhetorical. The answer is obviously yes.

Apparently some people just need to be helped. They cannot make it on their own.

[Bryan Resheske]

So the major difference between his $65k salary and a worker's $6500 salary in India is due to government induced problems?


Well, it does have some to do with it. The amount of payroll taxes an employer must pay, the high level of red tape and regulation it must overcome to hire American workers, does indeed drive up the end-price (salary) of that employee.

Secondly, the US is a much more developed country than India. As Indian labor becomes more sought after, (currently it is in its budding phase of demand), bids on projects will be raised and Indian salaries will be bid up by firms.

There will be a sharp correction in the price of Indian IT labor as its workforce is unable to meet global demand.

Yes, IT, as a non-local skill is one function easily able to be outsourced (as we are also seeing with customer service, CAD/CAM drafting, data entry, certain areas of Human Resources, etc.).

Doing business in the USA is becoming exceedingly expensive. And with every nice-sound proposal or bill put forth by our representatives in Washington (primarily Democrats), our cost of doing business inches higher and higher.

For instance, in CA now employers are soon going to be REQUIRED to offer 6-months 50% PAID Family Leave to employees (the reasons for taking leave is very vague, as well, wide open to interpretation and lawsuits).

There is another bill which will REQUIRE CA businesses with 20+ employees to pay 80% of all employee health care costs and those with 200+ emplyees, to pay this amount for all employees and their family members.

Legislation to prevent businesses from leaving CA due to this (which is just what they are doing), would do nothing but drive these firms into the ground. Capital must be allowed to flow to its highest return, and in so doing, equalize price-levels across the board.

Such is the case with India, and forcing American companies to do business in a hostile business environment, such as the USA is increasingly becoming, will do nothing but drive companies out of business.

Excessive government regulation most assuredly does play a large role in the huge wage gap. However, the free-market will soon begin to close that gap as well, due to competition for Indian labor hours.

[Bryan Resheske]

My bad.

I should have said that California's Paid Family Leave Act will provide 6 weeks paid leave at 55% of pay.

Not 6 MONTHS at 50% as I said above.

[Vince Ferrer]

But the more I read about this problem, the more jaded I'm becoming. I never made $60,000 plus a year. Why should I care about these $60,000/yr jobs being lost? I'm retiring soon.

The social security payments you will be receiving were not built up by you over your lifetime earnings. They will be coming from current taxpayers. The current taxpayers are having their wages cut by outsourcing. They are either losing their jobs and starting over at drastically lower wages, or accepting pay cuts. This is eroding the tax base from which you will be receiving your retirement. I hope you don't need social security.

[Cronos]

True, our public schools now churn out millions who are qualified to do absolutely nothing except sing some rap....

[Caipirabob]

On a grand scale, aside from the loss of jobs, we are being placed in a position where we are competing with nations that do not even subscribe to the concept of indoor plumbing. What compromises do we make as a nation to compete at that level? Do we become slaves ourselves? Also, those "large salary" jobs are held by "large comsumers" who drive the economy. Those jobs that depart our shores take those dollars and potential consumers with them. Downward spiral at this point. Pretty soon, the concept of indoor plumbing becomes quite "novel" for Americans...

[GatekeeperBookman]

No matter-6 weeks is as fatal to the employer as 6 months. No business has that percentage of excess profit to throw away.

The base cost of creating the simple jobs has exceeded all reason-we are at the point of the old joke about the banker being a fellow who will only loan you money if you prove you don't need it.

The cost of creating a job is so high that if one has that much cash or credit, investment in the market via equity shares ( stock ) or bonds, &etc, is perhaps more attractive.

[GatekeeperBookman]

Your post #20 is the best answer about why these things happen.

One can add the strange subsidies or advantages which may be found in some circumstances ( direct & INDIRECT ), for the move over-seas & the importation of certain workers.

There are many reasons why the government creates these circumstances. Perceived votes ( from existing or aquired constituencies, direct & effective lobby work ( many lobbiest actually write the bills which congress passes ), pay-back to certain foreign interests, and the fact that most Americans ignore the problems!

Most Americans have too many toys, too much 'liesure' time to use the toys & have been trained to ignore or praise whatever the Federal Government does! That slavish worship of the government & your list are the primary reasons.

[fortaydoos]

I am tired of billions for African Aids, billions for oil-rich Iraq to have a state of the art electrical grid while our is outdated, and tired of the outsourcing issue being ignored except for lip service.

Our borders are wide open, two years after 9-11. Our economy is still not creating jobs. We need some action, and reducing my federal income tax rate one or two percent while state, local, gas, sales, and property taxes are going thru the roof is NOT going to accomplish a damn thing.

[fortaydoos]

99 percent of the people on this website pay payroll taxes up the yingyang, and but the only tax that arouses any attention is the "death tax" - which 99 percent here will never pay. Sheep being led to the slaughter.

[Samizdat]

Why should I care about these $60,000/yr jobs being lost? I'm retiring soon. I want the cheapest damn price for every service I get, for every article of clothing that I buy. Why should I sympathize with these guys? It's everybody for themself in this economy.

Why should you care? Well if you are retiring soon will you be expecting a check from social security? Well guess what, social security is currently financed by today's money. If that goes away, so does your check. That's why you should care.

[old patriot]

Exactly which jobs are available for American workers over the age of 50 who are displaced by cheap foreign labor? Perhaps you can help by pointing out exactly where the jobs are for them, esp if they are older workers?

When I received my second back injury that was work related in 1996 I was making in the upper 1% of wages in the industry that I was working in. As the extent of my injuries precluded either operations or a return to my previous employment, I was sent for reeducation training by the State. I foolishly chose IT, which is now down the tubes.

What I did learn was to think for myself and what I really had to offer an employer, my work ethic and commitment to quality. Because of my past work experience and my prospective qualities, I was hired on at more pay than most managers that had been with this company for five to ten years.

By my willingness to do the best job that I could 24/7/365, I have received performance wage increases that have made my pay higher than any other managers except the assistant-manager. And this is still with this company honoring my pre-existing physical capabilities. Hard work and determination to customer service and quality does pay off.

And I have just been offered a job at another company at a salary equal to my 1996 wages because of the job performance at my current job. A friend of mine with the same work ethic has a similar reemployment experience as mine in this same area of the country, so mine is not the exception.

Hard work, character, and perseverance built this country, and it can rebuild it after the existing recession. Age does not matter, nor does physical handicaps. Mental attitude can overcome almost all barriers in life.

Keeping faith with one's self and others is the deciding factor in life. A job is only geography.

Old Patriot

[eno_]

Americans need to start looking for other ways to make livings when these things happen instead of complaining to Washington for some kind of public assistance. Since when did any politician ever claim that they could keep some plant open or business solvent?

Hear hear!

The ONLY reason this is a hot issue is that the people getting laid off are educated, middle class, often conservative, and articulate. Steel workers and coal miners thrown out by international competition and technology change are just told to suck it up.

IT is a cost. IT never made a widget. At best, IT optimizes some of the other costs in making a widget, but IT is never anything other than a cost. Why is anyone suprised that any rational business will go for the least costly IT they can get?

[eno_]

The base cost of creating the simple jobs has exceeded all reason

Ding! Winner!

Regulatory costs are what is hurting the lower-middle class. Jobs should be cheap to make. Decent small houses should be cheap to build. Good schools should be cheap to run. All these costs are currently too high due to regulation and taxation.

Fix these problems and we will have factories here that are cheap enough to run that China will complain that we are too efficient to fairly compete against. China has enormous costs due to corruption, poor education, and poor infrastructure. They can be beaten even if the Chinese work for free.

[eno_]

And on a practical side, what do you think is going to happen when the 2.5M people laid off grows and grows? They sure aren't going to continue voting in Republicans that sat there dumbfounded as their jobs were being shipped offshore. Think FDR II but bigger.

Then I'll take my money and put it offshore. Not my damn job to keep people from voting stupid.