Court bans religious gifts to classmates

The Washington Times ^ | September 21, 2003 | Julia Duin

[yonif]

Kindergartners and first-graders may not distribute to their classmates gifts that bear a religious message, according to a ruling by a federal appeals court.

The 3rd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals recently ruled in favor of a New Jersey elementary school in forbidding a boy from giving out pencils with the message "Jesus loves the little children" with a heart symbol substituted for the word love.

[kimmie7]

Constitution Pollution

I like that phrase.

FWIW we are Christians, and my four year old perfectly understands the concepts of Christ's birth, death, and resurrection and can explain them in specific terms. He also has a fair understanding of the rapture.

We were shopping last night, and a couple shoppers seemed stunned by his question to me, "Mom, when is Jesus going to come back and get us?" My answer? "Soon, honey. I hope and believe it's going to be soon."

On a lighter note, this was just after our trip to the book aisle wherein I showed him two books. "Good lady -- Ann Coulter -- goooooood lady!" "Baaaaaad person, very bad -- Hillary Clinton -- very baaaad. Never vote for someone named Clinton, just to be safe son." LOL

[sakic]

Can they hand out pencils that say "Islam means peace"?

Nope. That's the point.

[Elsie]

It's time to start ignoring the rulings of these courts. Go ahead and distribute more pencils. Tell the 'judges' to go screw themselves. When millions of Americans refuse to obey, the 'judges' will be unable to enforce their oligarchic decisions.

AMEN!

[Alouette]

started handing out beecher bibles

In case folks don't know what a beecher bible is:

[sakic]

Jesus (God) is being kicked out of every human nook and cranny. He will have the last laugh though, as He is landlord of heaven and can take in who He wants.

That is why this incident shouldn't bother you in the least.

[Elsie]

But.. but...

Romans 13
1. Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
2. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
3. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.
4. For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
5. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
6. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

[disclaimer]

HEADLINE FREE SPEECH BANNED FROM CLASSROOM

These sort of rulings make me want to puke.

[maxwell]

It DOES sound like Mom is a bit over-zealous in this case.

That was my first thought, and my second: "Well somebody has to make a stand. Traditional Christianity has been getting the shaft in the public education arena for years, despite the rise in lipservice to teeny-bopper pseudo-philosophies about tolerance and diversity. We all talk about doing something about it but for folks like me, at least, that never even leads to un-arsing the couch, due in large part to the fact that (the gods be thanked) I don't have to deal with this shiznit, not having any anklebiters myself."

So here's to Mom. Popping a cold one. \_/ \_/ \_/

[disclaimer]

AppyPappy: Can they hand out pencils that say "Islam means peace"?

sakic: Nope. That's the point

Let'em pass out "Islam means peace" pencils - it ought to open a discussion about the topic. It's called free speech.

[Alouette]

it is not okay to celebrate St. Patrick's Day by wearing green, making shamrocks, etc., because that day honors a Christian Saint and only Catholic Christians celebrate it

Silly me. I thought it was a festival honoring patriotic Irish Americans by drinking green beer.

[middie]

The Third Circuit is absolutely correct. This sort of prostelization has never been permitted in my knowledge. I always resented and tossed those little tracts that some self-indulged student would put on my desk in public school. Public school is no place for this activity.

If I choose to inculcate my kids with what I consider to be the religious truth, which I did, I will take care of that matter myself. I didn't require, nor would I have tolerated, some busy-body housewife giving her child a religious token, pencil, medal or book to pass-on to my child.

I can forsee the end result of this sort of gratuitous child missionary activity, kids will compete in the handing out of all manner of variations on this theme.

Using a four-year old surrogate for this conduct is reprehensible. How about a kids giving a classmate a "gift" of a pencil that promotes the virtues of---pick your most vehemently opposed antiAmerican group, policy, etc. What then would be the response of all those sanctimonious posters who would object to something they believe is not appropriate for a class like the one mentioned here?

[INVAR]

Romans 13 1. Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

Hogwash in this case. By your reckoning, had the Founders applied this verse to goven themselves you and I would be subjects to the British Crown to this very day. They were the Lawful Legal Authority before the War of Independence. Did our Founders therefore break God's Law? NO. Did not the midwives in Egypt defy the 'governing Authorities' of Pharoah when he commanded all the Hebrew boys be slain? Did not Shadrach, Meseach and Abendigo (sp?) defy the king? Did not Jesus defy the Pharisees and Sanhedrin (The lawful governing Authorities)? When are we to submit to govt. orders to disobey God?

2. Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.

Why then did God bless this Republic as He has if such rebellion against tyranny was forbidden by God?

3. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you.

Americans have not done right. This is why we suffer tyranny. As Patrick Henry said: "When a People forget God, tyrants forge their chains".

5. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.

At what point does tyranny become tolerable? Is it AFTER the despots order you to refrain from religious exercize? Is it AFTER they forbid you to utter the name of Christ as they had the citizens of Great Falls S.C.?? At what point do we apply the Apostle Peter's example: "It is better to obey God than men"? At what point to Americans apply "Disobedience to tyrants is obedience to God"?

6. This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing.

If THEY were truly God's servants - they would be in submission of God's Supreme Laws and that of our Constitution. They would not be acting illegally outside the bounds of WRITTEN LAW and imposing tyranny and ordering the people to BREAK the 1st Commandment by putting government orders ahead of God, and our INALIENABLE right to acknowledge and praise Him in public if we choose to. Your scriptural use of Romans 13 to insist on appeasement and capitulation to religious tyranny is not only unscriptural - but defies our own written history, our own WRITTEN LAWS and the covenant relationship our Founders established between Govt. and the People.

[hosepipe]

America is deporting GOD, instead of illegal aliens... Can a nation long survive with that kind of logic.....

[AppyPappy]

I always resented and tossed those little tracts that some self-indulged student would put on my desk in public school. Public school is no place for this activity.

So why not ban political speech too?

What then would be the response of all those sanctimonious posters who would object to something they believe is not appropriate for a class like the one mentioned here?

Strawman. You are basing your argument on something that has not happened. If you want to restrict free speech rights, just say so.

[glory]

The principal, assistant superintendent and superintendent said Daniel could distribute the pencils only during noninstructional time because they did not want the school to be held responsible for endorsing Christianity
_____________

How on earth are they endorsing Christianity if they did not
A purchase the pencils
AND
B distribute them

This child was only sharing a part of himself and his heritage and as far as I know, Christianity is not illegal and in fact is protected by the first amendment.

As an aside, how much you want to bet passing out unity candles from someone who recognizes Kwanzaa(a pseudo religious and made up cultural celebration)would have been acceptable? How about if a Muslim child handed out charms with the crescent moon symbol on them--bet they would not have been confiscated. Who wants to bet the teacher in question hangs symbols during the fall which are dear to the Wiccan and Pagan's heart? Although we play dress up during Halloween, I've always thought the schools promotion of it was questionable when put next to the guidelines they use for judging Christian symbols and such.

[King Prout]

but, but, but me no buts.
We, the People, are the governing authority.
The Constitution is the spine of the law here.
The government is supposed to be our servant.

When government forgets these facts and usurp authority from us, we are not "rebelling" against God when we remind them of inconvenient facts - we are RESTORING what WE have established, as the PROPER authorities, established by God or not.

[tpaine]

AppyPappy: Can they hand out pencils that say "Islam means peace"?

sakic: Nope. That's the point


Let'em pass out "Islam means peace" pencils - it ought to open a discussion about the topic. It's called free speech.
49 -disclaimer-

Promoting your brand of religion to kids in a public grade school is part of free speech?
- Daft idea.

If I wanted my kids to get religion in school, I would send them to a private religious school.

It is common courtesy to keep your religious activities and comments out of my childs face.
- Most people can understand such basic manners.
-- Zealots cannot. -- Thus we must have silly laws about handing out religious materials to kids.

[GeekDejure]

Betcha that if the message on the pencil said: "Hey, Babe ... d'ya wanna suck my pencil?" ... that would be AOK, eh???

.

[INVAR]

The Third Circuit is absolutely correct. This sort of prostelization has never been permitted in my knowledge.

Wrong. Completely inaccurate. This sort of religious promotion was expected and demanded by our own Federal Government and indeed practiced in American communities and public schools until roughly the late 1940's.

Note Congress' statement in the 1787 Northwest Ordinance:

Religion, morality and knowledge, being necessary to good government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the means of education shall forever be encouraged

Note Washngton's Farewell Adress:

And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle".

[mysonsfuture]

The answer: Home school! Home school! Home school!