University Begins Displaying American Flag in Classrooms

CNS News ^ | September 12, 2003 | ucfdeltagirl

[ucfdeltagirl]

(CNSNews.com) - The first American flag in a Florida state university classroom was unfurled at the University of Central Florida in Orlando on Friday afternoon as a result of an effort led by conservative students.

"This is a great day for UCF students," said Heather Smith, president of Rebuilding on a Conservative Kornerstone, or ROCK, a student-based group that has been working for months to have the flags placed in the school's classrooms.

Smith said it is national emblem of freedom and liberty. However, critics of the plan said the American flags would be used to show political support for President Bush and U.S. intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan, issues that not all students agree on.

Several months ago, the school administration approved the group's request to hang flags in every classroom, and UCF officials even offered to provide the labor necessary to install them. However, ROCK was required to come up with the funds to buy the flags.

The organization asked the university's student government for about $3,000 to obtain 200 flags. On Aug. 28, the student leaders voted 20-13 to deny that request after some representatives said they wanted the university - not student fees - to pay for the purchase.

Debate on the issue lasted for more than two hours and was often contentious.

"I would consider this an invasion of what is supposed to be a bastion of critical thought, the university," said Robert Coffman, a junior majoring in English at the school. "What's the next proposal? Let's have President Bush's photo in every classroom?"

"The flag doesn't offend me personally," said UCF sophomore Matt De Vlieger, a native of Coral Springs, Fla. "The way it's being used does offend me."

"It's a shame that our extremist student government is so out of step with the average UCF student," said Thomas Dexter, vice president of ROCK, after the decision was made.

However, local radio talk show host Shannon Burke heard about the vote and decided to raise money for ROCK's effort during his morning program. Within an hour, Burke had gathered all the needed funds.

The biggest contribution to the project came from the state's Elks organization (the original founders of Flag Day), which donated more than $2,000. Also providing financial support were the local SunTrust Bank, people in the Orlando community and UCF alumni and students.

On Thursday, Sept. 4, the flags for every classroom were delivered to the UCF campus. "With the money that ROCK has raised privately," Smith said, "the flags will be installed this month."

Smith had worked closely with Adam Guillette, a University of Florida senior and chairman of the Freedom Foundation. Following their success at UCF, Smith and Guillette plan to help students at other colleges promote the idea on their campuses.

Still, the controversy over the project hasn't gone away. Some students gathered outside the UCF Student Union this past week to protest the effort, with some of the youths calling the American flag "fascist" and "offensive."

Nevertheless, Burke dismissed those who claim that the flags are being used in a partisan way. "The American flag transcends any political issue," he said.

See Earlier Story: Students Push for American Flags in College Classrooms (July 25, 2003)

[mrustow]

The problem is, they chose a divisive symbol. Had they sought to get student gov. or school funds to place a PLO or a Mechista flag in every classroom, I'm sure everything would have been copacetic.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

"What's the next proposal? Let's have President Bush's photo in every classroom?"

Oh, brother...

[votelife]

However, critics of the plan said the American flags would be used to show political support for President Bush and U.S. intervention in Iraq and Afghanistan, issues that not all students agree on.

there the liberals go again, as RR would say, I guess the libs are showing they're true anti-American colors.

[Tolerance Sucks Rocks]

"The flag doesn't offend me personally," said UCF sophomore Matt De Vlieger, a native of Coral Springs, Fla. "The way it's being used does offend me."

Yeah, it might stir up patriotism and remind us about what country we live in, and ee wouldn't want that, now would we???

[bmauer]

"Chilling effect." Oops, I used it.

You make a lot of points and I can't respond to them all because I have another assignment I have to finish tonight.

First, I don't condone most of the comments made by leftists you cite here. I have leftist friends who fly off the handly sometimes, (just like most people do), and I try to get them to consider whatthey say more carefully. I oppose leftist extremism just as I oppose rightist extremism. Stalin? Hitler? Who's worse? I don't want to find out through personal experience, that's for sure.

I also did not call America a racist, fascist state. By the way, there is slavery in the U.S. Most of it is in the sex trade, but some of it is also in agriculture. There was a story a few months back in the New Yorker by John Bowe about slavery in Florida in the agriculture industry.

I accept your point that I will tell students to feel free to express any opinion they wish. Since President Hitt said the flags are meant to symbolize our free speech, I hope to keep him to his word on that.

Back to "chiling effect." If there are flags in the classroom and some students get punished or beaten up because they say something negative about the flag, that would have a chilling effect. IF Shannon Burke and ROCK police people's views about the flag too much, that would have a chilling effect. I'm not saying itdefinitely will happen, but I am concerned it might,

Justice. I think OJ is guilty and nobody said boo to me about being a racist. But is there equal justice for blacks and whites throughout the country? Most studies of the issue I've seen say no.

Here are some stats on the anti-war views in the media -- http://www.fair.org/reports/iraq-sources.html

Yes congress does the spending, but usually the president asks for the spending first. Bush refused to ask for full funding for the programs that he promised to fully fund.

See stopshannon.com for the Burke quote. My comment about his homophobia was a general one. I heard him talk about homosexuals today on the radio. He speaks derisively of them, saying they speak with lisps and then laughing about it. It's crude elementary school style homophobia.

I am concerned for my future at UCF. Because of the flag issue. I am worried that a misled public will think that because I oppose flags in classrooms that I am a dangerous American-hating traitor ,etc. I could see the administration bowng to that kind of pressure. At the very least, I feel insecure about it.

I could entertain you too with lots of stories about pro-war people going nuts -- like the guy who drove his pickup truck into a crowd of protesters. Of course Ann Coulter can speak freely and ROCK can bring her to UCF. But she is not a "lone voice." Add Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reilly, and many many others.

Coulter is way off base and her audience is not particularly critical of her. I think it's healthy to hear anti-Coulter voices too. That doesn't mean that I'm not scared stiff by her.

Of course there are conservative faculty members. I know some of them.

I don't know MECHa.

[bmauer]

I don't want any symbols in class except the ones I bring in or the ones students bring in for the purposes of class discussion. Maybe a globe would be fine.

[jwalsh07]

I don't want any symbols in class except the ones I bring in or the ones students bring in for the purposes of class discussion. Maybe a globe would be fine.

Meaning you're a globalist?

[adx]

I fear that permanent flags will detract from my ability to guarantee a safe place for discussion.

What, are these flags equipped with cameras? What are you expecting, a SWAT team doing a full dynamic entry or something?

[bmauer]

Sort of, depending on what you mean. What I meant by my suggestion to put the globe in the classroom is that at least I could use it to show students where certain countries are. It's actually useful!

[bmauer]

Actually, some schools are proposing putting cameras in classrooms, but not attached to flags I don't think. No, the point about "policing" is that in a highly charged atmosphere (such as UCF right now) people are hot to accuse each other of all kinds of ridiculous things. Scapegoating is a common way of deflecting problems onto others. The flag could be used as a weapon to scapegoat people. I would hate to see that happen.

[adx]

in a highly charged atmosphere (such as UCF right now)

Mabye for you Fine Arts swishes, but I seriously doubt that the engineering side of the house gives a flying f*ck. If things haven't changed too radically since I've been at UCF, most of the students are too busy busting ass trying to get graduated. Of course, most of my classmates that were in the engineering side are probably back in their home countries designing weapons systems to kill Americans anyway, so they won't give a rat's ass either way.

[jwalsh07]

Sort of, depending on what you mean.

It was a joke but to be fair I have no use for globalists. I am an American, not a member of the global community the UN dreams of creating.

An American Flag in your classroom is nothing to fear. Judicial tyranny is something to fear.

I attended UCF on the GI Bill. My philosophy professor hated veterans. This is 1979 or so when I took his class. Needless to say we didn't hit it off but he was a vengeful leftist and because I wouldn't back down he penalized me in my final grade. No sweat, still proud of that D. :-}

The point is that he offended me but I have no Constitutional right not to be offended. Such is life.

The flag represents the Republic. Those who are offended by it should also be offended by the dollars that Republic supplies for their education, no?

[bmauer]

I have a lot of friends in engineering. They share my concerns generally.

[bmauer]

We had better be globalists of some sort or we are in big trouble! How much drinkable water is left on the earth? How much clean air? How many people can the earth sustain? The earth is limited and its parts are interconnected. You can say "let other countries worry about their problems." But there are global problems. If you don't like the way the UN is addressing them, fine. But there's no way you can ignore global problems much longer.

Professors have no right to grade based on their dislike of a person's politics. There is a grievance procedure in place for dealing with events of that sort.

I get offended every day, but I don't go around with a chip on my shoulder and I don't whine. I am making a stand about flags at UCF because UCF is a huge part of my life and I care deeply about what I do, and I think flags are messing up what I do.

I don't tell you how to run your business. Don't tell me how to run mine.

[ARepublicanForAllReasons]

Try as I might, I cannot find any justification for your antipathyt to our nation's flag. That flag symbolizes the ideals and past sacrifices of our Republic and the heroes and heroines who have made it a success. To read into our flag a partisan message requires a pre-existing antipathy on your part. If you were merely of the loyal opposition (ie, opposing the administration's policies yet counting yourself a patriot who loves his country), why would you not enjoy seeing the flag displayed, in classrooms, on vehicles, in homes, offices and public buildings?

Leftism is an intellectually bankrupt mindset that counts reviling one's country as a virtue (unless you happen to live in a communist or islamofascist one). As soon as you stop blaming America for most of what is wrong in the world, you will welcome the sight of our flag, whenever and wherever you encounter it. I know. I was a delusioned leftist once myself.

[bmauer]

I think you missed about a hundred of my previous posts here where I addressed comments like yours.

[jwalsh07]

I don't tell you how to run your business. Don't tell me how to run mine.

You don't own a business, you work for the state. I own a business. There is a difference there. Since I pay taxes to the state, I have a say in how it is run.

On the other hand, you don't fund my business at all, ergo you have no say in how I run it.

Nuance Professor.

[bmauer]

Okay, OUR business. The university is part of a tradition going back 2500 years to the first academy in ancient Greece (begun by Plato). It has learned a lot about learning during that time.

What I meant was, if you don't know about learning at my level (I teach freshmen to upper division PhD students) let those of us who understand this kind of education make our own decisions.

[jwalsh07]

How much drinkable water is left on the earth?

Unlimited supplies, look at your globe Mauer.

How much clean air?

Another billion years perhaps.

How many people can the earth sustain?

6 billion and counting. Sooner or later stasis will be reached but I'll be long gone. How do you propose to stabilise world population? Forced abortion? Sterilization? Ration Cards?

The earth is limited and its parts are interconnected.

Right, we have oceans, which are full of H2O waiting to be desalinated and land waiting to be irrigated with desalinated water if necessary.

You can say "let other countries worry about their problems."

You misunderstand globalist. We can have free trade and we can depose mass murderers. What we can't do as Americans is relinquish our soverignty to World Courts, the UN and Kyoto Treaties.

You don't support those things professor, do you?

[goodseedhomeschool (returned)]

Of course that's what I meant. However, speaking of homeschool colleges. They are springing up now. Virginia has opened Patrick Henry University which specializes in constitutional law. I think this one will be wonderful and I plan to send my son there.
See
http://www.hslda.org