Embodiment of Evil: Osama bin Laden (A must-read! Explains why we Westerners are in dire peril!)

The Chicago Tribune ^ | September 14, 2003 | Geneive Abdo

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Not a few thousand but hundreds of millions wish death to us

The fact that 90%+ of Muslims approved of 911 tells you everything you need to know.

[sal002a]

I said "Early Islam". Do you dispute that?

[Dialup Llama]

>I said "Early Islam". Do you dispute that?

A history of your own making. Projecting your wishes on some mythical early Islam.

The tenents of Islam are submission and jihad. Just what do you think that means? The haddiths describe the actions of Muhammed, his many miliary conquests. What peaceful about that? Muhammed is about as 'early Islam' as you can get.

They were peaceful and negotiated when the had no power. When the had the numbers they killed.

[ryanjb2]

<< Early Islam was very peaceful. Very tolerant of other religions as well (say Christianity as a different way for a different people). Christians (well, the ones not trying to reclaim the Holy Land by murdering ever person in sight) where treated well... <<

Early Islam had to be tolerant, because they conquered vast areas of Christendom, and anything less would have led to a wide scale revolt - only a small percentage of the population was Muslim at first. They took care of that by taxing non-Muslims, polygamy, and allowing non-Muslim women to marry Muslim men, but not the other way around.

Peaceful? The Muslims attacked the Byzantine Empire unprovoked for hundreds of years. The Arab Muslims Seiged Constantinople twice, invaded and conquered North Africa, Spain, Sicily, Crete, and raided Italy.

By the time the Crusades started, Europe had endured hundreds of years of aggression.

[sal002a]

No - what you are describing is Islam after many centuries of man influence.

Read "Islam: A Short History" by Karen Armstrong. No book is the authority, but I think the preponderance of any evidence shows that the ultra-violence we see in Islamic Society now is a function of the Islamic World being economically poor and depressed. When they were the dominant cultures, there was quite a bit more peace in their culture.

[wizardoz]

Looks like the Gramsci approach.

[sal002a]

"Unprovoked attack"

Do you have evidence to support this proposition, counselor?

[ryanjb2]

<< Do you have evidence to support this proposition, counselor? <<

Yes. When Islam first began in the early seventh century, The Eastern Roman Empire (Byzantium) controlled Asia Minor, Syria, Palestine, Egypt - as it had for almost 700 years. The Arabs were not much more than disorganized tribes living in the deserts of Arabia. In 632, on the death of Muhammed, they were united and sent two armies - one to defeat Persia, and one to attack the Eastern Roman Empire. This was an unprovoked attack. The Arabs defeated the Byzantines at the battle of Yarmuk, and took control of Syria and Palestine. Later they took Egypt. After that they laid waste to Asia Minor and seiged the great Christian city of Constaninople. However, Leo IV beat them back and sent the Arabs back to Syria forever.

There goes your peaceful definition.

[sal002a]

I don't believe the attack was entirely unprovoked....However, I see your point.

But, early Islamic society, contemporaneously compared to Europe, was "peaceful" and much more tolerant.

Compared to today's Western society, it isn't peaceful. But at least in Islamic Society, Christians were not persecuted (unlike Muslims in Spain in later years)...

[PoisedWoman]

. Please don't confuse Iranians with Arabs. (as it seems that is what you are doing)Try not to lump all the people of the middle east together like they are all the same, please

nuconvert---and one wonders what you've converted to and from--go back and read my post. "Iranians and Arabs" does not mean "Iranians are Arabs." Or perhaps it does to you. My experience with the ME includes working on a book about ME history with a partner who lived and worked in Kuwait for years, a daughter who lived and worked in Egypt and Tunis for five years, a son who worked in Saudi for three years, lifelong Lebanese friends, a Palestinian Christian business associate.....so go wash out your mouth with soap.

As for where I got "that crap," from a HoWood screenwiter. Where do you get yours? Foreign financing for films is all-too-common and they absolutely prefer sex/violence/cars/special-effects movies to warm fuzzie movies about real Americans because they do not have a clue what real Americans think feel or care about.....

[Travis McGee]

"Reality Check."

Radical Islam is an insane murder cult; "moderate" Islam is its Trojan Horse in the West.

[arasina]

Liberals, themselves write what are euphemistically called press releases in which they verbally slaughter anyone who disagrees with Liberalism. This is the Liberal model ...

Good point! Love your tagline, by the way! :o)

[nuconvert]

"so go wash out your mouth with soap."

Yeah, right away.

You've got some nerve thinking there's ANY defense for your post! If You read your post again, you'll see that except for the words, "and Arabs", your entire post is a slam against Iranians! Pretty despicable for someone who's been so involved in the ME. And I'm still waiting for proof that Iranians "are why so many culturally destructive movies are made...blah,blah,blah." Now, you've decided that it's money from "FOREIGNERS". A little different, huh? "Their intention is to undermine American values." Are you changing that from Iranians to FOREIGNERS also, now? If you'd said FOREIGNERS in the first place, we wouldn't be writing to each other.

Here's the soap, Honey.

[RLK]

It is really questionable whether OBL ever had an original thought in his life.

---------------------------

Mohammedism doesn't encourage questions or originality.

[Ronly Bonly Jones]

"Reality Check."
Radical Islam is an insane murder cult; "moderate" Islam is its Trojan Horse in the West.

REAL reality check:

Equating of all Muslims to Al Qaida is nothing more than gibbering, orc-like hatred of non-European people, dressed up in a style of Klan-covering palatable to a people smarting from 9/11, whom you hope you can peddle your social strychnine. No thank you; we know you for what you are and what you advocate and we are NOT biting.

[TheCrusader]

"Early Islam was very peaceful. Very tolerant of other religions as well (say Christianity as a different way for a different people). Christians (well, the ones not trying to reclaim the Holy Land by murdering ever person in sight) where treated well..."

Huh? What is this, a history lesson from the Imam's Theology School of Yemen?

Early Islam was ultra violent, and that is precisely how it was spread throughout the Middle east, by violence and warfare. Mohammed was just another barbarous invader and conqueror. As for your nonsensical statement that "Christians trying to reclaim the Holy Land by murdering every person in sight", you don't know medeival history at all. The eastern Christians were being conquered and slain by the hordes of Mohammedans who sought to destroy Christianity and convert them all.

Catholic Spain had been under Islamic control for hundred of years. Much of the Eastern Christian Empire, (Byzantium), had been sacked by Islam. Islam utterly destroyed the Greek Army at Manzikert in 1071 a.d., and this opened the door for the Muslims to pour into Western Europe if they chose to. Whenever Islam marched, Western Europe trembled. It was these turn of events more than anything else that led to the Crusades. The Christians of the West knew Islam had to be stopped on its own soil rather then allow them to invade the West first.

The most common practice of the "peaceful" Islamists in dealing with Christians who were trying to visit the Holy Land was to cut out their bowels and nail them to a tree stump. Then they would beat the Christian with a whip, forcing him to walk away and pull out his own entrails. This was the last straw. When the people and the Pope heard of all these horrors being inflicted on Christians of the east, and on Christians pilgrimaging to the Holy Land, a war was called. But even so, it was never an all out war by the Crusaders - as they never mounted an attack with all their forces. They settled to take the coast and build a few fortresses, that was about it.

During the first attempt at a Crusade for the Holy Land, called the "people's Crusade" because it was comprised of mostly untrained men, women, and even children, these Westerners were slaughtered and butchered up like cattle by the Islamic barbarians, who spared nobody.

It's time for you to catch up on your history. I suggest you try reading something written by a Christian Westerner.

[Chief_Joe]

Radical Islam is an insane murder cult...

It comes down to this: they don't like us and we don't like them. They will never like us, primarily for the liberties we have and, for good or bad, what we create from such. Likewise, we will never like them for their restrictive practices. Solution: I volunteer to help send Osama and those who agree with him to their virgins in the next life, post haste.

[Helms]

The Following is a link to the full text of Samuel Huntington's Clash of Civilizations………………………………http://www.lander.edu/atannenbaum/Tannenbaum%20courses%20folder/POLS%20103%20World%20Politics/103_huntington_clash_of_civilizations_full_text.htm

[kapn kuek]

islam (POA) is an intolerant cult founded by a Jewish and Christian hating, child molesting pedophile, who was also a murdering thief. The followers of the cult bow several times a day to worship a meteorite in the sand and follow teachings from a hate filled screed based on moon worship written by a maniac. The sword and death are used to induct new cult members and remove non-believers. Women of the cult are treated as sub-human slaves whose worth is measured by the pleasure they give men and by the children they produce for the cult. Discipline within the cult is maintained by beheading, stoning, clitoral cutting, limb chopping, and self-mutilation