Salt Lake Officials: We shalt not move tablet (Ten Commandments gets support)

Salt Lake Tribune ^ | 9/12/03 | Mark Eddington

[PokeyJoe]

Good tactics in Provo.

[SheLion]

It's sad how some states are chicken chits, while other states have a big set! I'd love to live in a state with a big set, wouldn't you?

[PokeyJoe]

Second comment, can't the City proclaim the site of historical importance, and any change in status needs to be approved by the Historical committee? And then donate the land to an unaffiliated "historical society" that preserves Utah's unique heritage.

The LDS Church built the state - so almost everything in Utah is historical.

[Liz]

People are finally waking up to the fraud that the ACLU is pepertrating on Christians. The ACLU which has been pushing its hate-filled agenda onto the rest of us far too long. Others will catch on and fight the ACLU, too.

The ACLU should be threatened with (1) discrimination, (2) hate crimes, and, (3) inflcting emotional distress for impeding Christians' ability to practice their beliefs as they wish within First Amendment guarantees.

One FR suggestion is that if a judge considers the Ten Commandments are the basis of our law in Western Culture, then he/she can cite the applicable provision in a written decision AND get it into the system. Laws like (1) Murder, (2) Theft, (3) Adultery, (4) Coveting (in sex harrassment or stalking case).

If that happened, the hate-filled ACLU would be forced to disavow a huge body of law that is analogous to the Ten Commandments.

However, I fear the Christian-hating ACLU and its partners in crime --- People for the American Way, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, American Atheists, Humanist Association, Planned Parenthood, etc --- would not hesitate to do this b/c at the heart of this Fifth Column's activities is a cynical scheme to undermine and weaken the US.

The Fifth Column haters haven't yet been emboldened enough to actually say that they despise religion and loathe the people who practice religion (but that could change). They usually offer some high-falluting, elliptical legal argument to snatch the Ten Commandments, prayers, religious symbols, and creches from so-called "public" places. Their arguments are always offered in unemotional voices, which unfortunately makes the hate-filled devils believable.

We are witnessing the last vestiges of liberal-imposed "moral-neutrality".......the non-judgemental culture devoid of oppobrium against wrongdoing. Sicko libs get off on moral relativity that obliterates the clear line between right and wrong. How else could the conniving Clintons and their acolytes have gotten away with all their crimes?

The hidden agenda of the religio-phobic ACLU, and its partners despite their high-sounding legal arguments, is to decimate all references to morality b/c in their small, inferior, insular minds morality equates to dreaded sectarian religious beliefs.

How very successful they have been. Everyday we see the moral relativity agenda's outcome as we experience the unimaginable crimes and the collapse of a once-thriving culture's moral underpinnings.

[Little Bill]

Why don't they just establish Mormonism as the state religion?

Went out of style in the 1840s'. After we won the Mormon rebellion, State supported Churhes went out of style, thank Dan Webster.

[Noachian]

Is this going to be Alabama all over again minus judge Moore's oratory?

[Liz]

The 14th Amendment to the Constitution prohibits state officials from any action that infringes upon the rights of citizens. Section 1 specifically states: "All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

The key phrase in the 14th Amendemnt is equal protection. At issue here is that the gov't (the courts) cannot establish different standards of Constitutional law.....one for believers and another for non-believers.

Moreover, the crucial Bill of Rights (the first ten amendments) guarantees, by the first and tenth amendments, "the right of the people in and through their states and state governments to reverence God according to their constitutionally determined choice, that is by the vote of the majority in their state."

[Liz]

We shall see. The Mormon church is very powerful in SLC. If anybody can ward off the evil ones, they can.

[cake_crumb]

"Barnard, legal counsel for the Society of Separationists, has threatened legal action against Pleasant Grove unless the monument is removed from a city park at 100 North and 100 East, where it has stood ever since the Fraternal Order of Eagles gave it to the city in 1971"

This is the stuff I hate so much. The monument stood there for over thirty years and no one cared. NOW, due to the ACLU-backed anti-God campaign, EVERY ONE is a target. GRRRRRR.

They may be able to keep it on historical grounds, and if it's stood there uncontested for thirty years, WHY NOW? is a valid legal argument.

[cake_crumb]

"Moreover, city administrators believe their monument may fare better than the one a federal court ordered removed from a state judicial building in Alabama. Petersen said the Eagles donated Pleasant Grove's monument for secular instead of sacred reasons. Its purpose is to honor the Vietnam veterans, she said"

Oh yes, considerably better legal argument then Moore's: donated by a third party (unlike Moore's) AND a veterans' memorial.

[Liz]

....if it's stood there uncontested for thirty years, WHY NOW?....

It's as if they're vampires who just got out of their coffins, roamed the land looking to destroy all that's good, and pounced on the tablet.

[PokeyJoe]

hehehe.... you said "ward" hehehe

[Focault's Pendulum]

I want you all to here this from me.....an agnostic.

This is a crude attempt to remove our country's heritage.

Just because I may not profess to an organized religion...does not mean that our Founding Fathers' object of freedom, should be shunted aside for a complete expletion of religious faith.

I grew up with the Commandments as a good rule of thumb.

I want to say "God Help Us"!!!!..but then again...I'm an agnostic.

[PokeyJoe]

what about the golden rule?

[Noachian]

We shall see. The Mormon church is very powerful in SLC. If anybody can ward off the evil ones, they can.

I hope they can, because if they, or some other church doesn't, I fear for the future of religion in this nation.

There is a curious thing about judicial rulings on the First Amendment. For the last decade or longer the First has been brought up repeatedly in cases involving religious matters, but that Amendment contains more clauses than the right to religion.

The freedoms of speech, assembly, press, and petition are also in the First Amendment, but none of those have been abridged as has the religious clause.

The constructions that have come from the High Court of a "wall of separation" that's no where in the Constitution, the "establishment" clause that conveniently ignores the second half (the "prohibition" clause), and the incorporation of the First Amendment into the Fourteenth are all aimed at religious matters before the High Court. None of the other four rights in the First have such obviously unconstitutional constructions thrust upon them.

One need only follow the rulings handed down by the High Court to see that there is a pattern here that clearly shows the High Court to be hostile to religion. With liberals controlling the Judiciary Committees of both the House and Senate there's now no restraint upon the High Court, and they may rule as they wish with impunity.

[StarCMC]

The ACLU is freaking nuts to take on Utah -- the Mormons are richer than God! (Oops -- didn't meant that in a blasphemous way!) I predict the ACLU to land on its hiney on this one!