Who knows information about STG-58/ FN FAL rifles?

Me

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

I was looking to buy an STG-58/ FN FAL rifle in the future and was wondering what exactly I should look for. I would like to spend no more than $650 on the rifle. What is my best option? Could I get a good quality FN FAL/ STG-58 rifle for that price?

Also, is there anyway to modify these rifle types to make the pistol grip into a thumbhole stock so I can legally put a flash hider on it?

Are L1-A1 rifles better than STG-58 rifles? Are Heckler & Koch G3 rifles heavier than STG-58 rifles?

I also have a side question for a friend about 20 gauge shotguns. Anybody have any recommendations on a good home defense models of 20 gauge shotguns (he would prefer models which have a stock and not just a pistol grip).

[blackbart.223]

The mini 30 and the mini 14 are reliable and nice looking weapons. Their accuracy is not that good.

I have to disagree with you on this. I make 300 yard shots with my Mini 14 and I don't miss.

[Mulder]

It's a Sheppherd Rangefinding scope. It's awesome, has these little "circles" that just match the shoulder area on a deer and coincidentally the chest area of an average man

Sounds like a nice setup. I'm still pretty open to what optics I want on my battle rifle. I've considered a 4X ACOG, Aimpoint, and even a Leopuld low-power scope.

But it will be awhile before I can buy it.

[ExSoldier]

See, my M1A is set up more for the ahem...."ODD ANGRY SHOT" than as by definition a "battle rifle." I do have an older mini-14 in .223 with a factory folding stock and Giles style sling that I would term a "Battle Rifle." The Ruger is well adapted to this role because it's rugged and accurate. I would put either a reflex type sight with little or no magnification or maybe an AIMPOINT or possibly even a 1.5x ACOG atop it and would be perfectly happy out till I got in the 300-500 meter range that would of necessity require a .308 to just...ummmm "Go the Distance" and finish the job.

[Shooter 2.5]

I have never seen a Mini-14 that could keep all ten shots in a four inch group at 100 yards.

I can understand how someone can fire only three shots and then allow the barrel to cool for a decent group.

It's a problem with the gas system. The barrel and the gas block aren't attached correctly to the stock.

[King Prout]

I am now utterly enamored of my Model-37 Ithaca 12 pump.

[Smokin' Joe]

Never had any problem with my mini until I put a flash hider on and changed the barrel harmonics. When I took it back off, no problem.

[Shooter 2.5]

Most of the people who I ask about their Mini's have never shot them off a bench. Those that have, never shot more than a three shot group.

Here's a typical situation. I asked someone how they liked their brand new stainless Mini and I noticed the guy was doing a lot of spray and pray at a old tree stump at 30 yards. He said he hit everything he aimed at.

[Atlas Sneezed]

The very best advice I can give for making this decision is to buy and read a copy of "Boston's Gun Bible."

It spends hundreds of pages on all the details, pros, and cons of each alternative, and has other info that makes it a great book.

$20 (at fredsm14stocks.com) is the best money you can spend on this decision.

[Nebr FAL owner]

The L1A1 was the British army version of the FN-FAL aka "inch pattern" as for the bull pup weapon & I use the word weapon advisedly, that is currently issued to British troops there have been problems with that item since day one & even Heckler & Koch doing an attempt at engineering the bugs out didn't work.

[Kadric]

There is a minor problem with adding a flash surpressor from a nato standard rifle. All of the flash supressors used on nato rifles since the 50's have had the same outer diameter to inable them to launch NATO standard rifle grenades with out the need of an adapter so you would be adding 2 features that are on the list. The flash surpressor and a grenade launcher, which would still put you one over.

[Smokin' Joe]

Most people don't shoot much with iron sights either. If it doesn't have a scope, they don't shoot it seriously..

[Shooter 2.5]

I use a 24 power varmint scope to test loads. That's what is on the Mini at the moment. At 480 yards, I almost hit a bowling pin.

After the third shot and the barrel heated up, the Mini was useless.

I don't have a solution to correct the heat problems with the Mini. After more than 2 years, I gave up.

It is possible that Cryo-Treating the barrel and receiver may correct the problem but someone else and their money will have to do that.

[SSN558]

I'd rather put a muzzle brake

I don't have experience with muzzle brakes, but I can tell you they sure are annoying when you are shooting along side someone else that has one. I guess this is one way to win matches, distract the other competitors.

I like the flash hiders. It gives you an extra split second with each shot to re-aquire or stay on the target. My Garand does not have one and the flash obscures the target for a split second.

[Mulder]

I don't have experience with muzzle brakes

I have a muzzle break on my carbine, and am happy with it. It reduces the muzzle flip, which allows for quicker follow-up shots, and it protects the crown of the muzzle. The downside is it makes the weapon slightly longer and there is an increase in noise.

As for the increased noise affecting other shooters, it really isn't *my* problem if someone else shows up at the range with insufficient ear protection.

I like the flash hiders. It gives you an extra split second with each shot to re-aquire or stay on the target.

No argument there. Once the ban expires next year, I'll probably replace my break with a flash supressor.

[ExSoldier]

" I don't have experience with muzzle brakes, but I can tell you they sure are annoying when you are shooting along side someone else that has one. I guess this is one way to win matches, distract the other competitors."

Yup, a muzzle brake is sure LOUD.....But I sure as hell don't like your insinuation that folks use them to cheat their way to a victory.

The International Defensive Pistol Association club I compete with does not allow simultaneous side by side competing "runs" anyway, not with handgun, rifle or shotgun. Everybody is wearing ear and eye protection so the only way you'd really notice an increase in sound is if you're stupid enough to not wear ear protection anyway. This is a major range violation which might get you sent home, anyway.

The only other situation I can think of to complain about this in a static range situation (target shooting on a range from a fixed position) a guy with a larger caliber and a muzzle brake is annoying but not for the noise (ear protectors?) but for the re-directed muzzle blast, that sends actual particles to the side, which you did not mention, but I'll bet it's what you meant. And I agree, in that situation, it's a pain in the A$$.

A muzzle brake on a .223 is mostly superfluous. I managed to score expert on the M16 from the first moment the army taught me to shoot one. But the benefits on a bigger cartrige size are potentially enourmous. Recoil and muzzle rise reduced by between one half to two thirds! C'mon, on a .30-06 deer rifle or a .300 win mag and bigger that's maybe a lost animal or more than one. If the game is a potential man-killer like the Lion or deadly Water Buffalo....maybe it's your life.

Of course there are other novel ways to reduce recoil and muzzle jump that also work, but they won't necessarily work on a rifle.

I use a "HAARTS RECOIL REDUCER" on my Glock 45 and it sure cuts the muzzle jump and felt recoil by about one half. It's a novel idea: Replacing the recoil rod with another which has little ball bearings and some mercury sealed inside. As the weapon recoils, the fluid and ball bearings RUSH forward, thus providing extra weight at the front and providing the reductions. And yes, it really works. But only on a handgun. No modifications whatsoever are required. No redirected muzzle blast. I won't carry a handgun with a muzzle comp because of my fear that a forced shot from a position of retention might send muzzle blast into my face and eyes.

[ExSoldier]

"The L1A1 was the British army version of the FN-FAL."

Simple historical fact proven in combat: You can't go wrong with any true version of an FN/FAL! But that "Bullpup" pos is an atrocity. Only Bullpups I ever saw worth a dang were the Olympic Arms M17S (too heavy, I sold mine) and the ever popular Aug; which I dislike due to it's plastic trigger group and that's personal for me not for durability but for me it's ergonomics. I just don't like it!

[2nd_Amendment_Defender]

What about the Famas 5.56 N.A.T.O. military rifle? I hear those are a bullpup design that work well.

[ExSoldier]

"What about the Famas 5.56 N.A.T.O. military rifle?"

Never heard of 'em. But then I've been out...all the way out since 1994 and off active duty since 1984....so I missed lots of things that get tested and deployed. I missed all the highspeed GPS systems and communications devices. WE had to mess with a lensatic compass and the paper bound CEOI that the officer had to guard with his life! lol

[blackbart.223]

I've nailed a few coyotes with my Mini 14 out to 100 to 150 yards. I have a 3 to 9 varible scope on it and I can't complain about accuracy.

[Shooter 2.5]

I'm afraid you don't know what the problem is. Please read my posts again for an explanation of the heat problem.