Sun may offer Java customers SCO relief

NEWS.COM ^ | 09/10/2003 | Michael Kanellos

[HamiltonJay]

Sun may offer Java customers SCO relief

By Michael Kanellos Staff Writer, CNET News.com September 10, 2003, 10:04 AM PT

Can fear of SCO help Java grow? Sun Microsystems thinks it just might. Sun is contemplating adding an unusual provision to some of its Java licenses under which the company would agree to protect licensees from Linux-related lawsuits filed by the SCO Group.

SCO earlier this year asserted that some of the code in Linux infringes on the intellectual property underlying Unix, the 20-plus-year-old operating system that has been owned at different times by AT&T, Novell and now SCO.

"You license Java--we will indemnify you on Linux," is how Jonathan Schwartz, executive vice president of software at Sun, said the program, if initiated, might work. "We would indemnify you against the possibility that SCO comes after you."

A Sun representative said the program, if executed, would likely apply only to Java 2 Micro Edition, Sun's version of Java for gadgets including cell phones and embedded devices such as electronic billboards. SCO is seeking licenses for use of Linux on such devices, though it isn't seeking fees as high as those for desktop or server use. Sun also has versions of Java for desktop computers and servers.

Sun's contemplated actions are the latest salvo in an escalating legal war over Linux and the latest example of a company looking to take advantage of a tense and confusing situation.

So far, SCO has sued IBM for allegedly misappropriating Unix code and said it will seek payment from corporate Linux users. SCO's legal position has drawn the ire of open-source advocates, some of whom have hacked SCO's site.

Meanwhile, other companies have sought to benefit from the situation. Microsoft signed a multimillion-dollar licensing agreement with SCO that revolves around Unix-Linux compatibility issues, a move that some analysts have said will help SCO fund its suit. Microsoft executives also have warned the public about the legal dangers of open-source software in the hopes of convincing buyers to choose its Windows operating system and applications.

Additionally, the software giant expanded the indemnity provisions in its volume license agreements as a way to put customers at ease against the fear of lawsuits.

Although Sun and Microsoft are often at odds, they have taken similar approaches toward protecting customers from lawsuits. Sun has publicly stated on several occasions that it will indemnify its Solaris customers against any liability. Customers that adopt Mad Hatter, an upcoming Sun desktop software suite, also will be indemnified, Schwartz said.

Over the years, Sun has paid millions of dollars to the owners of the original Unix code so that it can use the code in a variety of products without fear of liability.

Linux users: You're on your own When it comes to Linux, however, Sun server customers are on their own. The company does not provide indemnity to Sun server customers who choose to run Linux, rather than Solaris, on its servers. Sun sells servers that run Red Hat's Linux.

Sun, in fact, will try to erode Linux's growth in the marketplace by promoting a version of Solaris that runs on servers with chips from Intel or Advanced Micro Devices.

"The big appeal of Linux is that it runs on Intel," Schwartz said.

[HamiltonJay]

Hahhaaha I love this... Way to go SCO!

[Cicero]

As far as I'm concerned, Java is dead. It was a very promising program, but Sun has selfishly sat on it and basically killed it. Development has gone slower and slower from one beta to the next. When they refused to license it to Microsoft, that was the end of it.

You can't have an open source program and a monopoly at the same time, and then try to sue your way out of trouble. It doesn't work.

[Criminal Number 18F]

What SCO, and its parent The Canopy Group is doing is real simple. It's a type of stock fraud known as the pump and dump. They use a blizzard of publicity to inflate the stock, while the insiders cash out. That is exactly what is happening now.

SCO's fundamentals are lousy (read their latest 10-Q from June 30th.. their business would be tits up if Microsoft and HP weren't funding this suit to the tune of $8,250,000). But all the noise about the suit has driven the stock up to fifteen times what it was trading at, pre-suit. The only problem is, the charges in the suit are demonstrably false... something that can pass muster with editors but not with techies or with lawyers. So SCOX is going to collapse, sometime. No one knows this better than the SCO execs which is why insiders are dumping tens of thousands of shares. Also, Canopy has worked out a sweet deal where inflated SCO is buying mass quantities of other moribund Canopy stocks... this way the insiders can kind of hide what they're doing, or at least make it less obvious.

Two other developments today: 1, an "open letter" from the SCO CEO Darl McBride, which contains numerous statements that he must know to be false. For instance, he rearranged quoted from open-source advocate Bruce Perens to mean the exact opposite of what he said, which will probably the specific item that finally lands McBride in the SEC's crosshairs; and 2, IBM's lawyers deposing a number of SCO execs... in the subpoena they ask for specific information about Canopy Group stock sales since 1/1/03.

My prediction: this scam is very near its end. By year's end it will be over, people who bought SCOX will be feeling very stupid (if it reverts to fundamentals someone who bought today will have 7 to 8 1/2 cents for his dollar --if it isn't delisted) and some SCOX and Canopy insiders will be employing expensive criminal lawyers.

The things some people do for money.

d.o.l.

Criminal Number 18F

[HamiltonJay]

What world are you in? Java is the predominant enterprise development language today.

[isthisnickcool]

Prediction? IBM's lawyers are going to pan fry Caldera aka SCO. And at some point these pump and dumpers are going to find themselves faced with huge shareholders suits not to mention prosecution for criminal activities of various sorts.

[thulldud]

Abso-bloomin'-lutely right. Java is everywhere. It has its problems, but so far, lack of committed developers and users is not one of them.

[Golden Eagle]

Here is one of the products they are describing, Sun Solaris Unix for Intel (x86):

http://wwws.sun.com/software/solaris/x86/index.html

Available for download for $20, a great buy for full-fledged Unix (cost for 1 processor).

[HamiltonJay]

I have used SolarX86 its a fine product, its biggest weakness is simply binaries... If you want any sort of software for it you pretty much have to get the source code and compile it yourself... which limits its adoption.

Its far easier to download a package and install a binary, versus "making" a source code tree into a binary.

[HAL9000]

When they refused to license it to Microsoft, that was the end of it.

If I recall correctly, Sun did license Java to Microsoft, but Microsoft violated the contract with platform-dependent modifications. Then Sun sued Microsoft, and one of the issues before the court is whether Microsoft will be required to bundle Sun's implementation of Java with distributions of Windows.

[HAL9000]

"We would indemnify you against the possibility that SCO comes after you."

In other words, Sun is predicting that SCO will lose.

[Cicero]

The suit was stayed by the judge, and I seriously doubt that Sun will prevail. It's very hard to make a case for forcing another company to use your product. Maybe they could get a fine for earlier violation of the license, but forcing Microsoft to use Java just doesn't compute.

[SoDak]

Java stinks on ice. It comprises 40% of my problems as an administrator.

[paulk]

Of course SCO will lose in court - the aim is to create FUD about Linux not to win.

Do you get it now?

[HAL9000]

The suit was stayed by the judge, and I seriously doubt that Sun will prevail.

My recollection is that the trial judge issued an injunction before the trial ordering Microsoft to start bundling Sun Java right away - a strong indication that Sun is likely to win. But a higher court stayed and overturned the injunction. Currently, the lawsuit is still going to trial, and has not been stayed by the judge (whatever that means).

[HamiltonJay]

Java causes 40% of your problems as an administrator???? I am curious as to how, any developer working with JAVA that needs an administrator to make it work shouldn't be in development, and deploying a Java based app is childs play....

[steve-b]

some SCOX and Canopy insiders will be employing expensive criminal lawyers

And about all the expensive criminal lawyers will be able to accomplish is to get them into Club Fed instead of the Harem of Cellblock 13.

[SoDak]

I and my team administer 920 different servers that use java to support various application servers in a database environment. Did you think a mass deployment of apps like these in a mission-critical industry would take care of themeselves? And believe me, child's-play isn't the word that comes to mind.

[HamiltonJay]

So you have 920 servers running various java apps.... so how much of your support is due to JAVA problems, and how much of it is due to server or deployment misconfigurations?

Java is a language. I have deployed dozens of high traffic mission critical java based apps, and never had administration be any more or less on the deployed side of things for a Java app than any other based APP. In only real problems I have had once things are deployed are finding poorly written application code.. which is endemic of all applications.

Deployed on all the big ones out there (Websphere, Weblogic, ATG, IPlanet, JBOSS, TOMCAT, JSERVE) and have found some of the app containers far less robust than others... but again that's not a JVM issue, but quality control of the app server vendors.

Sounds to me like you either have to get better QA in your development cycle, or more homogenous, deployment requirments for your infrastructure software.

[SoDak]

Look, it appears that you are a Java Developer, so I'm not going to try to gore your ox, you probably code great apps, who knows. I'm saying, that since we began launching application servers supported by java code, they are much more problematic. My end users many times can't get a clean kill of the java-related processes when bringing databases down for maintenance, which ALWAYS means my department has to get involved, because we don't expect our end-users to do root level maintenance ever.

Now I admit, the development language may just have integrated java poorly, who knows, I'm just saying that in my life, a lot of my problems have java written on them. As for the configurations and deployment, I'm responsible for that, so I'm going to claim there's nothing wrong with those procedures. We are consistently rated tops in out industry for product ease of use and reliability, which I believe proves that out.

I also confess that I do not like java content in many webpages, especially in a site where I want to get serious work done. It's unnecessary, cumbersome, and more complicated than it needs to be. If you ever try to manage contracts on Cisco's site, you'll know what I mean.

[HamiltonJay]

Look,

I am not just a developer, I have deployed mission critical systems for numberous fortune 500 companies, as well as supported them, written the support doc for NOCs and supervised NOC personelle and well as 2nd and 3rd tier support. As WELL as architected, designed and developed mission critical apps as well.

As to clean kills of java related processes... frankly you shouldn't be killing servers but bringing them down via their shut down signals. IF your admins are shutting down Java servers with Kill -9 commands its not supprising that IP connections to your DB are remaining open, particularly if you are dealing with SOLARIS or other OS with known TCP cleanup issues.

Sounds to me your admins need to be better trained at shutting down the infrastructure software, based on what you are describing here.

I have seen tons of BAD CODE in java apps, particularly regarding the use of DB Connections and statements... not being closed properly, not using bind variables etc etc... However in my experience I have not had to give any more administration support to a JAVA based app running on solid infrastructure server versus other language apps. In fact, I have had to spend far far far more time babying proprietary servers doing various hodge podge things than anything deployed on a commercial application server.