Time: A Return to Apollo?

Time.com ^ | Sept 2, 2003 | Broward Liston

[mikegi]

NASA has seen the future, and it is the space capsule. Seven months after the Columbia debacle the agency is giving serious consideration to bringing back a new version of the Apollo capsule, the expendable spacecraft that served the U.S. space program during its glory days in the 1960s through the mid-1970s. Supporters say they are not retreating into the past so much as waking up, at last, to the dangers of attempting spaceflight with winged shuttles, a notion given ample support by the Columbia Accident Investigation Board's report released last week. Boosters on Capital Hill, in the aerospace industry and even inside the astronaut corps point out the capsule has is a more versatile design: it is modular and can be outfitted to the specific needs of any mission. And unlike the shuttle, it can venture beyond low Earth orbit, which means the U.S. could once again send astronauts to the moon.

...

[Junior]

There is no current need for manned space travel.

Except that human endeavors spark the public imagination in ways robots never will.

[Mamzelle]

This is what's wrong with the whole deal of space exploration---the cult of celebrity.

Gee, I can tell you where you can buy some signed stuff. But you might have to pay big time for some used EVA gloves. Want a signed Buzz Lightyear doll? Ebay's full of it-- some of it even marketed indirectly by the astronauts themselves

[Mamzelle]

re: Except that human endeavors spark the public imagination in ways robots never will.)))

Maybe that's a problem that could be fixed with enough imagination. But the celebrity culture stands so much in the way of worthwhile exploration that if we can't let it go to explore, perhaps it ought to *all* be let go. Other science (biomed, f'rinstance ) manages to forge ahead without movie stars--they perhaps deserve our money more than a show business enterprise.

[RadioAstronomer]

This is what's wrong with the whole deal of space exploration---the cult of celebrity.

When I am sitting for 14 hours in a mission control room thru the night, I certainly don't feel like a celebrity.

[Phsstpok]

Hey, didn't I see that on ebay?

Not a chance. I've considered donating it to some institution, but I'm always afraid that it will just end up in a store room. I keep it as protected as I can, along with the issues of Aviation Week from the Apollo missions. I even managed to find a copy of the "Proceedings On the Chemistry of Lunar Geology" about the findings from the moon rocks. Stultifyingly detailed, but when you realize what they're talking about a real treasure. The other thing shoved into this collection is a photo-copy of a photo-copy (ad infinitum) of the original paper (with hand written notes) that Arthur C. Clark delivered where he laid out the idea of geostationary satellites.

[FreedomCalls]

...something more exploration-oriented.

I have worked with the space program for close to 20 years and in many ways I agree with you on this one.

And in many ways it was a public relations mistake to focus so much of the Apollo moon-exploration effort on geology. Who the F cared about minute details of lunar surface geology? Only a few scientists. If the focus had been more on "Let's see what's over that next hill" kind of exploration we could have sustained more interest rather than watching two guys drill a core tube for an hour.

[RadioAstronomer]

I have passed many of my mementos from the space program to schools and other folks. If my house burns down, not all of it will be lost. I have never sold a single item from the space program. I have flags and patches that flew on shuttles presented to me. I know I could get alot of money for these, however, I would rather give them away than sell them.

[FreedomCalls]

As just one example that I recall--the NASA engineers wanted to build the shuttle airframe with titanium, but back in those days, titanium was exotic, expensive, and difficult to fabricate and, because of the budget cuts, they couldn't use it. In the intervening time, technology has dropped the price and increased the ease of manufacture so much that today we even make GOLF CLUBS out of the stuff.

And back in those days the Soviet Union was the source for 99% of the world's titanium supplies.

[RadioAstronomer]

Who the F cared about minute details of lunar surface geology?

I sure did. It added peices to the puzzle of the origin of the moon. But then again, I am in the business.

[Mamzelle]

That's because you're not one. Even today's astronauts are no longer celebrities.

That doesn't mean that the cult of the celeb has died, or that the emphasis on vicarious space-hopping has faded from the few that make the decisions on the nature of the missions. It was just too good a deal in the late sixties--they keep trying it and it keeps not working, this celebrity stuff. Merrygoround trips on the Shuttle to the SSI and back again, over and over...

The body cannot take the abuse that manned flight to Mars represents--at least not with what we know now. And getting back...? What we do know now, with a revved-up focus, is how to send some really wonderful robotics to Mars. And the bonus--we don't have to bring them home.

[Alter Kaker]

Nothing sex can accomplish that artificial insemination cannot.

True. However each sex program do not cost US $80 billion. Persons also not normally experience orgasmic while watching video of shuttle launch.

[chilepepper]

Exactly. What was need WAS to have a simple capsule system ALL ALONG, rather than burning all the boats on the beach with the space shuttle.

NASA really is in trouble if they resuscitate the capsule at this stage (unless they can do it *REAL* cheap, in which case we have to ask, why didn't you do this before?)

[RadioAstronomer]

What we do know now, with a revved-up focus, is how to send some really wonderful robotics to Mars. And the bonus--we don't have to bring them home.

Indeed. :-) I have friends flying those missions. However, I was invloved with a Mars sample and return design. (that one does have to get home! LOL)

[FreedomCalls]

But then again, I am in the business.

My point exactly. We let the vision get away and public support dropped like a rock. NASA is too myopic.

[RadioAstronomer]

We let the vision get away and public support dropped like a rock. NASA is too myopic.

The public got bored by the third moon landing. They would rather see reruns of I Love Lucy.

[A.J.Armitage]

If the wouldbe Buzz Lightyears and their little cult followers could get out of the way, maybe the engineers could get a chance to take us to Mars.

1) Robots-to-Mars has been done. Multiple times.

2) You can't build human settlements without humans.

[Phsstpok]

while my kids were in elementary school my wife was heavily involved in the PTA and school board and worked with the teacheres on puting together curriculam, particularly computer stuff (which I do) and the space program. We used to go down to Florida alot (we discovered annual passes to Disneyworld... don't ask (g)) and we'd almost always go over ot the Kennedy Space Center and go to the Teachers center. If you brought your own blank VHS tapes or 35 mm film they'd let you make copies of their material for class room use. They built an amazing science program around the stuff we brought back. It's been about 10 years now and they've dropped most of that and the teachers involved have moved on or retired. I would have given my collection to them, but I'm afraid the new folks would say "thanks but no thanks."

Huntsville is about 4 hours from here and we used to visit at least once a year. I've often thought they might have a place for some of my stuff.

Huntsville is where I met (shook hands with and got a book signed by) Buzz Aldrin, as well as seeing the rest of the Apollo 11 crew. That was the 20th anniversary of their mission. A friend and I went to the adult space camp there, along with a group we put together through the old Space Forum on Compuserve. One of the guys on my team was an IBM contractor who worked on the Shuttle GPC computers, reviewing the code. We even had Jesco Von Putkamer, just retired from NASA headquarters, volunteer to be available to answer questions online if anything come up. Fun memory.

[FreedomCalls]

The public got bored by the third moon landing. They would rather see reruns of I Love Lucy.

Because what they saw was some guys speaking in what to them was scientific gibberish and video of hours and hours of core drilling, cable unwinding, and rock collection. Even today the most diehard NASA fans cannot bring themselves to sit through all 6 DVDs of the Apollo 16 lunar EVA. It's too boring. Lone among the astronauts, Al Shepard thought the science secondary to the exploration and was ostracized for it. Even today the best two video clips from the lunar exploration are the 16mm films of the rover cutting donuts in the lunar soil, and the camera attached to the front of the rover as it traversed some small hills from the POV of the astronauts.

[RadioAstronomer]

What a treat to have been involved like that. I never met the Apollo 11 crew, WOW. I used to work at the Cape. What struck me was just how run down it was. I used to walk out to the old pads at night and think back to the days of the hustle and bustle when we were striving to do what mankind had never done before. I am in awe still that I am privileged to work with the space program.

I wish we could bring back that old fire that so caught up this nation.

[RadioAstronomer]

guys speaking in what to them was scientific gibberish and video of hours and hours of core drilling, cable unwinding, and rock collection.

Science WAS the mission.