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ABORTION-SLAY REV EXECUTED
New York Post ^ | 9/04/03 | GERSH KUNTZMAN

Posted on 09/04/2003 12:33:34 AM PDT by kattracks

Edited on 05/26/2004 5:16:24 PM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

September 4, 2003 -- As a violent thunderstorm flickered and dimmed the lights in Florida's execution chamber, a former minister was put to death last night for murdering an abortion doctor.

Paul Hill used his last breaths to call upon right-to-lifers to continue the fight - by any means necessary.


(Excerpt) Read more at nypost.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Extended News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: paulhill
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To: AmericaUnited
You need to seriously think about this. When your views are opposite of 99.999% of those who God has placed over you, maybe your position/view is wrong, not theirs.

I have thought about it, and I'm stumped. Which is why I put the question to you. Kindly tell me why the great majority of American Christian clergy would justify violence in the self defense of the born, but condemn it when in defense of the unborn, even though they mostly loudly proclaim the full humanity of the unborn?

I see no rhyme or reason to it, but can only assume that you do as you apparently agree with them.

So I repeat, what is the answer to your question?

61 posted on 09/04/2003 4:17:23 AM PDT by Heartbreak of Psoriasis
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To: Heartbreak of Psoriasis
Read some of my posts in this thread to answer you question.
62 posted on 09/04/2003 4:21:28 AM PDT by AmericaUnited
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To: AmericaUnited
Please forgive my callowness, but I did go through your posts and I do not discern there any direct answer to the question.

I really would like to understand your position, and so I respectfully request your indulgence and ask that you will answer the question once again, and directly.

63 posted on 09/04/2003 4:25:47 AM PDT by Heartbreak of Psoriasis
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To: kattracks
Wherever the 19 hijackers are, this brain washed zombie psychopath hopefully is also.
64 posted on 09/04/2003 4:29:08 AM PDT by tkathy
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To: tkathy
Amen. At least we no longer need share oxygen with them.

I just wish that so many would similarly recognize them for what they are, and not excuse those whose putative views they agree with.

I expect this "martyr" nonsense from the Muslim Extremists; it is frightening coming from my own countrymen.

Even worse is the fact that the same sort of "leaders", Preachers (think "mullahs") exhort it in almost all cases. Can no one see the similarity anymore?

65 posted on 09/04/2003 4:35:46 AM PDT by Long Cut (Even in Summertime, Iceland is COLD!)
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To: AmericaUnited
I agree with Heartbreak P. I'd like to know the answer, too.
Your posts thus far have not addressed this very fact except to say that everyone else thinks this way so they/we must be right. To me, what matters is what God says is right. It is entirely within the realm of possibilities that the 99.999% could be wrong about this. I am not saying this out of arrogance but out of my search for the truth.
66 posted on 09/04/2003 4:37:07 AM PDT by Hyacinth Bucket
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To: Heartbreak of Psoriasis
There are none so blind as those who will not see.It's against the law.I'm beginning to smell a troll.
67 posted on 09/04/2003 4:39:03 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: Long Cut
God's laws, on the other hand, apply only to those who subscribe to whatever particular religion whence they spring. No American could hold that view.

We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights . . . We Americans believe that our rights are FACTS OF NATURE and of Nature's God, and thus whether one accepts that fact or not in no way vitiates the existence of the right.

In short, it matters not a whit whether you or I or anybody else accept that the fetus is human that is endowed BY ITS CREATOR (note well, not be any government) with the unalienable Right to Life - that Right exists and is unalienable whether we accept it, like it, know it, want it.

Like the law of gravity, the Natural Moral Law stands outside and above us. All men, and indeed all human institutions, are subject to the Natural Law, just as all objects are subject to Newton's Law of Gravity.

68 posted on 09/04/2003 4:40:21 AM PDT by Heartbreak of Psoriasis
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To: Long Cut
Can't the people who are constantly talking about murder and hatred to young impressionable boys see how similar they are to the mullahs? More persuasion is needed, not violence.
69 posted on 09/04/2003 4:43:56 AM PDT by tkathy
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To: Heartbreak of Psoriasis
I see you are very new..just signed up today.I thought "the gurney raised to the level of the Cross" statement you made was offensive and now I believe you were meaning it to be.
70 posted on 09/04/2003 4:45:05 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: Heartbreak of Psoriasis
"No American could hold that view."

I'm sorry, but I can't defend my citizenship OR patriotism more directly with you...I'm overseas right now defending YOURS.

Your statement was, however, arrogant, insulting, and offensive, not to mention destructive of any cedibility you may have possesed.

Oh, and by the way, when you quote the Declaration of Independance, you might try remembering that, whilst indeed one of our Founding Documents, it is the Constitution, and not it, which carries the force of law.

71 posted on 09/04/2003 4:47:41 AM PDT by Long Cut (Even in Summertime, Iceland is COLD!)
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To: tkathy
Unfortunately, no. Their goal, you see, is also the same...power and aggrandizement.
72 posted on 09/04/2003 4:51:45 AM PDT by Long Cut (Even in Summertime, Iceland is COLD!)
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To: MEG33
what law allows for taking one persons money and giving it to another?

or is it only this particular set of laws you respect..?
73 posted on 09/04/2003 4:52:49 AM PDT by Mr. K
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To: Long Cut
Thank you for your service,Long Cut.I believe we have been talking to a disruptor.Heartbreak just signed up!May God watch over you and all who serve and their loved ones who wait at home.
74 posted on 09/04/2003 4:53:24 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: Long Cut
Man's laws did not come about on their own. The foundation for man's laws is God's laws. It doesn't make sense to me when atheists try to be moral and at the same time deny God, the one that gives meaning to the laws.
Why not just drink, eat, be merry, and satisfy one's heart's desires? That will be more consistent with that belief system.

The issue we're discussing if you read the posts carefully are bigger than Paul Hill. I know nothing about the man and how he behaved before and after he killed those people.
we're discussing a particular moral dilemma and it is frustrating when people jump in the middle of a conversation and take it to another tangent.
75 posted on 09/04/2003 4:53:33 AM PDT by Hyacinth Bucket
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To: Mr. K
HUH?
76 posted on 09/04/2003 4:54:50 AM PDT by MEG33
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To: MEG33
There are none so blind as those who will not see.It's against the law.I'm beginning to smell a troll. I would love to "see." I would dearly love for someone to prove me wrong so that I could in good conscience join the majority opinion on this.

But alas, I have seen no compelling arguments to the contrary. Go back and look at this thread - not a single one of my arguments have been met, but only avoided.

Your argument that "it's against the law" assumes that the law always must be obeyed. But this directly contradicts the very foundations of our Republic.

We hold these truths to be self-evident:

That all men are created equal; that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights; that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness; that, to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed; that whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government . . .

It is clear. Our Founders most emphatically did not facilely conflate the "moral" with the "legal" as you appear to do. These men declared war against an established and recognized government (and spilled buckets of blood in the process) when they were compelled in conscience to conclude that the regime of King George had strayed so far from the law of Nature and Nature's God that it had lost all legitimacy, and that duty called them to fight.

Now, I humbly submit that the grievances Washington and Jefferson had against King George pale in comparison to the "long train of abuses and usurpations" that our own regime inflicts on us. Even King George didn't protect the murderers of innocents.

Again, somebody please prove me wrong. Give me at least one good argument, because trust me I want to believe.

But alas, I see no way around it.

77 posted on 09/04/2003 4:56:47 AM PDT by Heartbreak of Psoriasis
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To: Hyacinth Bucket
I went back and read the article....did we interrupt a private conversation?
78 posted on 09/04/2003 4:57:07 AM PDT by MEG33
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It is amazing how much of this discussion was going on 150 years ago.....about slavery and abolition. Remember that SCOTUS ruled that the 'negro' was not human. Remember the violence that abolitionists were responsible for.

I laugh when I hear folks say that 'it is only a fetus'. Look up 'fetus' and see what it means.

Maybe in another 150 years we will think about abortion in the same way that we think about slavery today.
79 posted on 09/04/2003 5:01:11 AM PDT by TheDeacon (Thank God for those willing to go into harms way.)
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To: Hyacinth Bucket
Then feel free to not respond to me. The topic of "God's laws" came up; I merely offered a different opinion.

And while they may have had their genesis (call the pun police!) in religious law, the laws of the nation are maintained and employed by the consent of the governed. Thus, they all must be agreeable to a majority of the People to be enacted. That way, they cover EVERYONE, of all religions or none. We do not "eat, drink, or be merry" because we have ENFORCEABLE laws against such things.

Although Christianity was undeniably the dominant religion when America was founded, there are literally thousands of different religions here now. They all have rights, as well as those who choose to practice no religion at all.

No matter HOW some people try to make it so, Christianity was not made the state religion.

80 posted on 09/04/2003 5:01:53 AM PDT by Long Cut (Even in Summertime, Iceland is COLD!)
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