SCIENTOLOGY: NO RIGHTS, PLEASE

pagesix ^ | 09/04/03 | P6

[Pikamax]

TOM Cruise, John Travolta, Lisa Marie Presley, Kirstie Alley, Juliette Lewis and other Scientologists may have signed away many of the rights that most Americans take for granted. As they move up into the higher levels of the Church of Scientology, members sign documents giving up their right to psychiatric care and to see their families.

[Liberal Classic]

Thursday, September 04, 2003 5th Circuit Enters Final Judgments For Estate

New Orleans - The United States Court of Appeals, 5th Circuit, has now issued three final judgments and mandates against David Miscavige's (the cult's current leader -LC) Religious Technology Center, RTC, and in favor of (1), The Estate of Lisa McPherson, (2), Dell Liebreich, and (3), Kennan G. Dandar, Thomas J. Dandar, and Dandar & Dandar, P.A.. The appellate court remanded the cases back to the trial court in the Eastern District of Texas, Tyler Division, to enter further Final Judgments according to the appellate decision finding a total lack of jurisdiction. The appellate court also granted an award of costs against RTC. Once the case is again before the trial court, then the victorious Estate and Dell and their counsel will move for attorney fees and costs as well as to return to Dandar the cash bond in excess of $100,000.

[george wythe]

I hope you stay around FR and give us your opinions on other subjects beyond Scientology.

I believe that Scientology teachings are junk, but I know that Scientologists can be very intelligent and sagacious.

Welcome to the jungle. I'll be looking forward to reading your contributions.

[callmemrpurpose]

"Why does the COS sue?"

Have you ever heard the story of the lady who sued Mc Donalds for making their burgers irresistible to her?

Well that story is completely irrelevant and has absolutely no bearing on this discussion...

[callmemrpurpose]

No I accept that there are some things that I don't know yet. I don't claim to know everything.

[callmemrpurpose]

"I am not opposed to Hubbard's cult because it is anti-scientific but because it is anti-free-will and anti-life"

Yet he acknowleges socrates and stresses that one learn to think for himself.

I'm just about through with this merry-go-round.

[callmemrpurpose]

"I hope you stay around FR and give us your opinions on other subjects beyond Scientology.

I believe that Scientology teachings are junk, but I know that Scientologists can be very intelligent and sagacious."


I appreciate that. ;)

Perhaps I will stick around.

[searchandrecovery]

Funny because he spent his entire sci-fi fortune on research that took a half of a century of time to compile. Sure he was a greedy man...
Er, I think you be gettin' me mixed up with another poster - I said "Very expensive.", but never used the word "greedy".

I don't understand why you are anti-scientology because you claim it's "unscientific" yet the bible has some pretty unscientific things in it to.
And yet, the Bible doesn't claim it is based on science, where scientology does in fact assert this. Do you see the difference?

Not everything can be explained yet. Scientists don't claim to know the meaning of life do they?
Tonight look up the word "specious", and use it in a sentence like - the above is a specious argument.

Do does that mean that any person who thinks they know something about life should be shunned because they aren't a well known, learned, nobel peace prize winning, PHD science graduate?
No, but they show up more often on Oprah than in Scientific American.

Nice work - NEXT!

[searchandrecovery]

I would know because we are relatively small very tight knit group, so of course gossip travels very quickly among us, as you could imagine.
No, I can't imagine that. Staff members aren't supposed to spread "entheta". I'm sure you don't hear as much as you think you do.

I know just about all of the failure stories that happen around here (I live in clearwater) and I can tell you from observation and experience that there are far more successes.
See above comment.

But don't take my word for it.
Don't worry 'bout dat!

If scientology has all this great "tech", why couldn't the church make a dent in clearing the planet even when Hubbard was alive and running the show? Much less now. Riddle me that. If exterioriztion with full perception is possible for ot's, how come not one of them can demonstrate this particular ability? Riddle me that.

[callmemrpurpose]

Yes I see the difference. From American Heritage I bring this - SCIENCE - The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena. In Scientology there are certain basic systems used to bring about specific results. These systems pretty much always work when applied correctly. Now, if he was experimenting & investigating in order to create these systems and finally codified them it would be considered, to a degree, "science" according the the dictionary. If you have read any of Hubbards books then you might be familiar with some of his basic Technology and systems. Have you? There is no need to be so condecending.

[callmemrpurpose]

"No, I can't imagine that. Staff members aren't supposed to spread "entheta". I'm sure you don't hear as much as you think you do."

There is a difference between mere gossip and the important things. No I don't hear about every little petty thing (though people are people and people will gossip, scientologists included) but I will assure you that when someone is doing very badly in scientology, that kind of news news travels quickly.

[fortunecookie]

Ok whatever. I get your point that its a ridiculous story and impossible to believe; as if other religions dont believe in some ridiculous things? If thats all it is then why aren't you against all religions for their belief in god? Is that your only argument?

The way I feel is that what I've done so far in scientology has helped me out quite a bit more than anything else ever has. So, no I don't take it on blind faith, I see it for what it is, not what people tell me it is.

I posted this reply

Let's not forget that his (L.Ron Hubbard's) books were written and marketed in the 50's, 60's & 70's as SCIENCE FICTION. I remember, as a child in the 70's, seeing the paperbacks in the sci-fi bestseller displays (and later self-help) at the mall. My mother recognized it as drivel and cautioned me about it then.

on this previous thread -

Tom Cruise: How Scientology Helped Me .

One of the features that distinguishes a cult from a religious group is one's ability to leave the group or disagree with a group member or teaching and also to associate with family and friends who aren't members of the group. Speaking as someone who has witnessed a person 'disappear' when trying to leave a cult (my friend's good friend), I can say it's scary stuff.

I'm glad that you don't take everything at face value. It's always good to want to self-improve, but a quick trip to a bookstore or search on google can turn up dozens of ways in addition to scientology. You mention that you don't believe everything they say and that you are just beginning, so issues of leaving or spending time with non-COS friends and family may not be an issue, but beware should you ever be told to disassociate with loved ones or have those loved ones demonized by 'teachers' or pay sums of money so large that it financially straps you. Groups with your best intentions at heart will NOT ask this of you. (Rehab groups treat your existing addictions or illness not necessarily your soul and have a finishing point where you hopefully 'graduate' and go back to your regular, non-addicted life.)

[searchandrecovery]

You didn't answer my questions. Let me repeat them:
If scientology has all this great "tech", why couldn't the church make a dent in clearing the planet even when Hubbard was alive and running the show? Much less now. Riddle me that. If exterioriztion with full perception is possible for ot's, how come not one of them can demonstrate this particular ability? Riddle me that.

I'm waiting, RPF boy.

[searchandrecovery]

Yes I see the difference. From American Heritage I bring this - SCIENCE - ...
Your dictionary definition leaves out the accepted scientific practices of: 1)Peer Review, 2)Independent Experiment Duplication. You're not a scientist - don't try to pretend you are.

Have you?
Yes.

There is no need to be so condecending.
Yes, there is.

Shouldn't you be on post?

[William Terrell]

One is a release form a Scientologist seeking advanced training must sign "forever [giving] up [the] right to sue the church and its staff for any injury or damage suffered in any way connected with Scientology."

But that's for civil suits, it seems? Fraud is criminal. You complain to the DA and, he prosecutes 'em after a grand jury indicts them. Besides, if "the church" breaks any law in doing what they do to you, that you can't sue for, that wouldn't be covered under the release, right?

[callmemrpurpose]

"One of the features that distinguishes a cult from a religious group is one's ability to leave the group or disagree with a group member or teaching and also to associate with family and friends who aren't members of the group."

My Mother was a staff member for a number of years whle I was a child and left without a problem.

And, probably half of my friends aren't scientologists.

"but beware should you ever be told to disassociate with loved ones or have those loved ones demonized by 'teachers' or pay sums of money so large that it financially straps you."

Just as a little side information that might interest you -My father, over the passed 5 years has 5xed his income by applying scientology, to his life. He recently joined staff and works part time with the church, part time at home, and studies at night, yet he's still managed to make 6 digits this year.

He is a big contributer to the church now and you can imagine they ask him for money quite often, but he has the balls to say "no" when he can't afford it or doesn't want to.

Only an idiot would give someone money they don't have, that what I think.



Anyway, what are some of the other popular forums on this site?

[callmemrpurpose]

"It's always good to want to self-improve, but a quick trip to a bookstore or search on google can turn up dozens of ways in addition to scientology."

This is true and I believe there are a number of ways for a person to better himself not just through scientology.

Keeping healthy, eating right, exercising, recreation. These things do wonders.

[Liberal Classic]

From American Heritage I bring this - SCIENCE - The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.

She Blinded Me With Science

[MEGoody]

"I think I'll just remain independent."

Good. We don't want you.

[Petronski]

Funny because he spent his entire sci-fi fortune on research that took a half of a century of time to compile.

LOL I don't suppose you can document that, can you?

[callmemrpurpose]

"I think I'll just remain independent."

"Good. We don't want you."

Now that is the most blatantly obvious display of intolerance anyone's posted so far. Simple and to the point. It's good. Cut the pretense and just say it "we don't want you".