Posted on 09/03/2003 11:51:33 AM PDT by ConservativeDude
Free State Project members, please comment.
Nope. Those are the ten we chose from. They're generally offered in alphabetical order; thus:
Alaska, Delaware, Idaho, Maine, Montana, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota, Vermont, Wyoming
FSP rankings of the top ten in different criteria can be found *here*. Discussion groups considering the advantages, detractions and differences between the ten can be found *here*. Scroll down to the *state discussion list* and State E-mail Lists/discussion groups for additional info.
-archy-/-
You're just as welcome.
-archy-/-
You bet. I'm not counting chickens before they hatch, and all sorts of personal considerations could delay my initial move, and even weather could be either a positive or negative factor following the 01 October vote result announcement.
But it certainly looks probable, and yep, I'll be looking forward to visits from follow-on porcupines as well as my fellow pioneering ones...but FReeper porcupines, in particular.
-archy-/-
LESSGO! What could be better than FReedom loving people working together in their own communities to control their own destiny?
Oh great! Porcupine #1984, with a screenname of *Taxman.* Between visions of George Orwell's predictive novel and an unfortunately too-memorable Beatles tune of the same name, the syncronicity of the combination of the two offers goosebumps.
No matter, though. The thought offered in your second paragraf shines right through any cloud of doom offered by that unfortunate one-two combination. Let's make it happen, together. And I'll find some other Beatles oldie to hum as we do it....
-archy-/-
Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman
If you drive a car, I'll tax the street,
If you try to sit, I'll tax your seat.
If you get too cold I'll tax the heat,
If you take a walk, I'll tax your feet.
Don't ask me what I want it for
If you don't want to pay some more
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
Now my advice for those who die
Declare the pennies on your eyes
'Cause I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman
And you're working for no one but me....
Maybe as a well travelled Northern Wisconsin native Im too aware of how environment affects the way people live. Hot, cold, dry or wet makes no difference if you plan ahead. I cant be responsible for Floridians who show up in Montana with nothing but a bikini and I dont know why FSP would want them.
"...info for relocation into specific congressional districts..."
There will be suggested target locations regardless of what state is chosen, correct?
"...flash floods and hurricanes..."
...blizzards, tornados, sand storms, etc, I can make plans to deal with, half a state detonating under my butt, I cant.
"...frightened..."
Frightened? Blessed! Dems good eatin.
"...I am reliably informed ..."
Im familiar with that but wont need to circle the SUVs. As the decendant and secret receipe holder of one of Al Capones best "whiskey" distillers, I have the ultimate secret weapon.
That's a good one, I hadn't thought of that. Fortunately, the FSP doesn't plan on holding a vote on an issue dividing the country into soon-to-be-warring halves in a disorganized territory that both sides have ready access to. Plus no outlaws, like you said. (Maybe pot smokers, but they'll be baked, so it's not a problem.)
Haven't really thought about joining. Here's the rub, each generation only has a limited number of libertarian/conservative motivators and high performers. If they abandon their home states, the net result would be a overall greater loss of freedom nationwide in a generation. Stronger Fedgov, and jealous masses vesting to loot on the borders.
I have considered joining, but I'll wait to see how it devolopes for a little while first.
I'm not sure you need to worry much about the inter-generational effects of libertarians moving to one state, though, since most libertarians become libertarians because they read libertarian books, not because of personal contact. A successful libertarian state might persuade people who wouldn't otherwise consider it.
Utah? A Free State? Oh flip.
My handle, "Taxman" is an ironical and black humor derivative of my avocation and passion: For 12 years I have been working to replace the income tax with a National Retail Sales Tax and abolish the IRS.
If FSP comes to FRuition before my life's wok is done, I'll relocate and continue my work at the National level FRom wherever we are!
BTW, you can take it to the bank that I will work to ensure that the FSP has a consumption tax only!
And, since I do not do popular culture, and in any event never thought much of the Beetles (if I thought of them at all) when they were popular, I was unaware until several years after I became a FReeper (in Nov, 1998) that they had written a song for me!
Now, I kind of like the Beetles songs, and am proud to be the Taxman!
“I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.” [Thomas Jefferson, letter to Benjamin Rush, 1800.]
Click here to help us scrap the Code, scrap the IRS and abolish the VLWC!
You can also click here to sign a petition in support of Fundamental Tax Replacement.
We will never be a truly FRee people so long as we have the income tax and the IRS.
Utah? A Free State? Oh flip.
Well, it's certainly worked out moreso over the long run to be that from their point of view, at least, than Illinois did, recalling that Nauvoo became the largest city in Illinois during the time they were there. Following the death of Joseph Smith at the hands of the local anti-Mormon faction that town can hardly be said to have prospered, and the Mormons were understandably reluctant to limit their political dominion to a single locality rather than an entire state as a probable result.
I can't complain; my kid was born that year. Perhaps Orwell saw that coming and knows what his plans for the rest of us are....
My handle, "Taxman" is an ironical and black humor derivative of my avocation and passion: For 12 years I have been working to replace the income tax with a National Retail Sales Tax and abolish the IRS.
Did you by chance share your effort with the late FReeper Chief Negotiator, who had some similar interests and activities?
If FSP comes to FRuition before my life's wok is done, I'll relocate and continue my work at the National level FRom wherever we are!
Good on ya! I can't at all claim expertise or deep knowledge on the subject, but it is an important one. I hope you don't mind pings or referrals on the subject from me when questions on the subject get beyond my admittedly limited ability to field them.
BTW, you can take it to the bank that I will work to ensure that the FSP has a consumption tax only!
Again, I'll not claim particular expertise as to whether sales tax, VATs, or what-have-you should be used for such governmental funding. But I darned well expect them to be at the bare-bones minimum possible, and as minimally intrusive as can be made to happen while remaining functional. I look forward to your effort and interest in seeing that happen as can best be accomplished.
-archy-/-
There's also an effort in Texas to attempt to accomplish on a county level some of what the FSP is doing with a state. With 254 counties available for such a possibility, Texas seems an ideal state for such a localized attempt at the same sort of thing, though I can't begin to tell you which counties are involved. You might ask on the FR continuing Texas *LoneStar* post thread, though.
-archy-/-
I've formerly lived and worked in Alaska and think I could make a go of it there, but I suspect it's probably highest among the states that have been *opted-out* by FSPers. Delaware was my last choice of the ten, though a nice locale in which to reside; it's pretty out that way, as it is in Maine. But the numbers in those two states don't jibe well with the hoped-for political effect.
My personal favorites are New Hampshire, Idaho, Wyoming, Vermont, and Montana, pretty much in that order. Of course my top 2 States have high populations, Idaho at 1.8 million and New Hampshire at 1.3 million. However, I believe that is where the most initial freedom and liberty can be enjoyed while increasing that liberty and freedom in the long run for maximum effect.
You may have a point and if the FSP groundswell attracts numbers twice or 5 times the barebones 20K minimum, ID or NH might not be bad choices for the following effort. Initially, however, I want to see the quicker success possible in a state with a smaller number of resident voters where the effect can be made to happen soonest.
In regards to moving, I could move to New Hampshire or Vermont within 1 year, because I live in New York State and have the ability to scout it out and look for work, housing, etc. I have never been to MT, ID, or WY and cannot afford to travel there until spring 2004, at the earliest. (Note: anyone living in MT, WY, or ID who would let me sleep on their floor... heheheh)
I have 640 acres of land in eastern Wyoming on the SD state line [literally within sight of SD] and some ideas on how to best utilize it for the FSP project, particularly in the earlier stages. I think we can do a little better than having you flop on the floor, though. Something similar can probably be made to happen in MT, though I don't yet have property there. But there is a town for sale there....
-archy-/-
NH has a population approaching 1.3 million--20K people would not even make a dent.
Just so. But in 2000, only 738,442 of those NH residents were registered to vote; and fewer did so- it was only the second national election in which election day registrations were allowed, with nearly a tenth of the voters in that election showing up to register up at the polls:
And here are some other interesting numbers from NH worth considering; the Democrats [Democratic Leadership Council (DLC) leaders Al From and Bruce Reed; per their 15 May memo The Real Soul of the Democratic Party, page 3 certainly are:N.H. ranks 5th in voter turnout
By Hampton Union Staff and Wire Reports
MANCHESTER — New Hampshire ranked fifth in the nation for the percentage of the voting-age population that cast ballots this year, according to Newsweek magazine.
With a 68.7 percent turnout, Minnesota was first, followed by Maine, Wisconsin and Vermont. New Hampshire came in fifth, with 62.2 percent of voters casting their ballots, according to the magazine's Nov. 20 edition.
The state of New Hampshire broke an Election Day voter registration record, when 65,443 people registered to vote. In 1996, the first time New Hampshire voters were allowed to register on election day, there were 41,000 new voters that day. ... .
Out of 738,500 possible voters, a bloc of 20K porcupines works out to about 2.5%, certainly enough to make at least an interesting dent, and maybe tilt the results one way or another, particularly if common cause is found with a sizable bunch of those NH independents, who are NOT a single monolithic coalition or political entity. Neither is that 20K number likely to remain constant or static, particularly if the FSP gains even the slightest political success. Their bandwagon is a particularly easy one on which to jump aboard.No matter what happens in Iowa, the first make-or-break test will come in New Hampshire. Here's a shocker that every presidential candidate needs to understand: There's a good chance that more independents will vote in the 2004 New Hampshire Democratic primary than Democrats.
Sound impossible? You can look it up. In New Hampshire, more independents are registered to vote (37.5 percent of registered voters) than Republicans (36.5 percent) or Democrats (26 percent). According to exit polls, about 155,500 self-identified independents voted in the 2000 primary, compared to 140,550 Republicans and 92,800 Democrats. Inspired by John McCain's Straight Talk campaign, 60 percent of those independents voted in the Republican primary. This time, with no GOP contest and a heated Democratic one, those numbers could easily be reversed. If 60 percent of independents vote on the Democratic side, that would mean more than 93,000 independent voters in the Democratic primary, slightly larger than the number of Democratic voters in 2000.
The increased number of independents will moderate the Democratic primary electorate. In 2000, the New Hampshire electorate was less mainstream than in the past: 54 percent identified themselves as liberal, 38 percent as moderate and 8 percent as conservative. With more independents voting on the Democratic side, the primary electorate will be more like it was in 1992: 43 percent liberal, 42 percent moderate, and 14 percent conservative.
And in another state with even lower numbers, the western choices of Wyoming or Montana, for instance, the possibility of an outright win of a FSP/*porcupine party* favoured candidate is even more likely than in NH. But I think it should be do-able in either locale, or I would not have hitched my wagon to their star.
-archy-/-
If the other 49 keep sliding toward nanny government that may became necessary. Thanks for the info. :^)
Their perspective isn't the only one, of course.
Do you know why Joe Smith was in jail when he was shot?
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