Free State Project

http://www.freestateproject.org ^

[ConservativeDude]

Free State Project members, please comment.

[Feiny]

I am signed up for the first wave, but am not sure I am totally committed to moving. There are financial concerns as well as significant other objections....

[Feiny]

Yes, New Hampshire is high on the list.

[JerseyHighlander]

I think the days of abolitionists moving to 1850's Bloody Kansas and Missouri's border wars actually come close in analogy to the FSP. Of course, there isn't an armed group of outlaws burning towns down on the other side this time.

Haven't really thought about joining. Here's the rub, each generation only has a limited number of libertarian/conservative motivators and high performers. If they abandon their home states, the net result would be a overall greater loss of freedom nationwide in a generation. Stronger Fedgov, and jealous masses vesting to loot on the borders.

[JohnGalt]

I think there is one element I missed.

I am not quite thirty but thanks to some decent investing, foresight, and delayed gratification, my wife, self and future children really would not need that much money to live a fine life that has us spending a maximum amount of time together, provided there was access to nature and what not.

Some of the extra's in life like vacations can be jettisoned however, I would miss museums and art exhibits so I think some access to the outside world would be necessary. That said, building a community is more than just a commercial operation, and it would be my concern that the FSP is filled with 'doers' and 'activists' rather than people who simply want to be left alone, raise their children in a place that loves the West and loves American concepts of liberty, and to live off what they earned in Yankeedom.

Confrontation in the courts costs money, which means taxes, and I am not sure that would be the best choice for me and my happiness, despite romantic urges to take on the federalis.

[archy]

I am curious to hear from you who are free state project members. Please give us your personal thoughts. Specifically, are you really going to do it, that is, move?

If Wyoming or South Dakota are chosen as the project's goal state, I expect to relocate within 30 days of the announcement, since I have family land in that area. I can do almost as well if it's Montana; Idaho, Alaska or North Dakota might take me a little longer, but still, I foresee no immediate problems, just a bit more of a delay.

I really don't think the project is as viable in most of the potential eastern seaboard locations, and a couple of them are on my *opt-out* list. But New Hampshire and maybe Vermont have possibilities, and I've had some really touching offers of assistance with initial housing and relocation from some of those already resident there, so that spirit is also very much a factor in my considerations of a possible eastward move, though I don't favour that course.

On October 01, we'll find out. And I have a porcupine suit all ready to wear for my first Halloween party in our new home.

I better pick up a set of snow tires and chains, something I've not had much need for for my last half-dozen years hear in Memphis.

-archy-/-

[ridesthemiles]

I heard they have settled on the state of Wyoming.
I would go in a heartbeat. Calling Calif the Nanny state barely scratches the surface.

[archy]

i might be in the wave after the 5K, after the choice is made. or i might wait to see if the 20K actually move.

i would say that i am convinced that this is a viable strategy.

I would be glad to add either of you, both, or anyone else wishing to be so included, to the FSP *Porcupine Ping List* of FSP participants and those interested in FSP activities. You need not be a pledged porcupine for inclusion, nor necessarily supportive of the project or its goals. But there are several aboard who very much are.

I'm convinced it's a possibly viable and effective strategy, though there are a couple of potential pitfalls that could kill it in the early stages. But so far, it's been sucessful beyond anyone's expectations, with the initial 5000 aboard and making the critical choice about a year ahead of when it was expected that would occur.

My prediction is there'll be 20K involved within 24 months, but I would neither be surprised nor disappointed to see that number reached much sooner.

-archy-/-

[archy]

However, I do believe the Feds will use both economic and military force to try and crush it. 45 -Sparta-

This would be the biggest mistake the feds could make. -- It would quarantee success, imo, as millions of americans would join to support the movment with time & money, if not physical presence.

I believe the result of such an effort would be pretty close to what happened in the Soviet Union in 1991. Now known as the former Soviet Union.

Indeed, steps have been taken to pretty much insure that will be the case in the event the FedGov decides to play the game outside the rules set down in the constitution, and that document is the only source of any real claim they have to legitimacy as a governmental entity. If it's toast, so are they- but it won't be pretty.

-archy-/-

[archy]

I think the days of abolitionists moving to 1850's Bloody Kansas and Missouri's border wars actually come close in analogy to the FSP. Of course, there isn't an armed group of outlaws burning towns down on the other side this time.

That's certainly *a* historical precedent, though certainly not the only one; the Morman migration to Utah has also often been compared to the FSP effort.

But the real genesis was the liberal relocation to and social subversion of Vermont, as suggested by an article that appeared in PLAYBOY magazine in the 1960s [link available upon request; along with one of the best of the original calls for a FSP and the one that got me aboard the porcupine wagon.

If you look at the FSP membership's growth chart, you'll notice a considerable spike and climb in the numbers of those joining once the first thousand members had signed on, of which I was one. There was a reason for that, and you'll soon see it happen again, I believe.

-archy-/-

[archy]

Yeah, this will go over well. Remember the last time this was tried...1861?

No, the last time this was tried was in Vermont, in the late 1960s-early 1970s. It took several decades for them to achieve many of the results they'd hoped for, but they've accomplished many of them, and they're still at it, trying to turn the place into the most accomodating pismire colony of liberal socialists possible.

That's one reason Vermont has been picked as one possible FSP project state, and IMHO, the one in which it's most likely that violence will occur from those already entrenched there should the porcupines come nosing about to upset their applecart.

For that reason among others, it's not way up there on my list of best choice, though I'm hardly one to avoid a scrap, even if it's a potential bloody one. But that's the only state of the *top ten* to which I feel the sometimes-heard phrase *target state* really applies.

-archy-/-

[archy]

Everybody stay the hell out of Idaho- we're full already.

Concur. Idaho is a great place to visit and I love the place, but the numbers there just don't work for the FSP's hoped-for political effect. Accordingly, it was number 6 on my list for best choice as I recall.

And interestingly, there are quite a few folks from Idaho among the ranks of my fellow porcupines, planning on making their way to their new home and the hard work to come in our new home, and leaving their old digs in Idaho for the *progressives* arriving there as California, Oregon and Washington state become less pleasant places to live. I'm sure you'll find them to be interesting new neighbors.

[archy]

Free Staters should probably be urged to "encourage" liberals to start their own "Slave State" program to relocate elsewhere. This will have a similar beneficial effect on the political leanings of the whole state.

State motto: Arbeit macht frei....

[gnarledmaw]

"Please give us your personal thoughts."

It all depends on what state is chosen.

Real estate prices, especially rural ag, and state housing construction ordinances would play significantly in my decision.

Climate makes little difference to me and I think far too much attention is being paid to the subject.

Im concerned about some specifics of how this is supposed to occur. Are we aiming at a specific region within these states? 20,000 spread widely over any state will have absolutely no effect and make us out to be the fools that many claim. Yes, Ive considered the economics, pro and con, of what Im suggesting.

Ive always wondered what kind of retard would live on a volcano (or a major fault or hanging out over the ocean). As much as I like Wyoming, I wont be parking my family on a caldera. I doesnt matter to me if it might not blow for hundreds or thousands of years, its there.

[Taxman]

I am a member of the FSP. Please add me to your list.

Wyoming, Idaho and Montana were my top three choices, followed by Vermont and New Hampshire. I lived for 6.5 years in Flagstaff, AZ, and prefer the "Big Sky," but will move when FSP officially kicks off.

The "Galt's Gulch" similarity with the FSP concept is most intriguing to me. I have been fascinated with that concept since I read "Atlas Shrugged" in 1958, and would love to contribute, however modestly, to the effort.

[archy]

I heard they have settled on the state of Wyoming. I would go in a heartbeat. Calling Calif the Nanny state barely scratches the surface.

It's far from certain yet, and the vote result won't be announced until 01 October. But Wyoming and Montana are very much two very popular choices, with proponents of a western goal state sometimes referred to as *cowboys* in certain FSP circles; I'm the moderator of the FSP Wyoming information repository and discussion board website and I certainly don't mind being called that, though there are a few who say it with a sneer that's not particularly appreciated.

Likewise, the most popular state among the likely Eastern possiblities is probably New Hampshire, which really does have a lot going for it, as well as some disadvantages, of course- they're ALL just such a toss-up or there'd be no need for a choice and vote. And those resident in and favoring a move to New Hampshire are sometimes known as *Hampsters* among their porcupine brethern, but if that becomes the chosen state, I'll happily accept that tag myself.

I really wish the resources and capability to begin the initial effort could have simultaneously taken place in both a eastern and western location, keeping us from having our porcupine eggs in one basket; but every resource possible is going to have to go to making a go of it in a primary locale instead; so be it.

If it does come off either with a modicum of success, additional efforts will flow to other states soon enough. And in the not-impossible event that the numbers of participants REALLY snowball and begin to overflow the Free State home, all that political, social and legal data compiled to help make the choice of the pilot state the right one will be available for updating for additional efforts.

Liberty in our lifetime...and not just in one lone state haven, either....

-archy-/-

[archy]

I am a member of the FSP. Please add me to your list.

You're added, brother porcupine; see ya in the Free State.

Wyoming, Idaho and Montana were my top three choices, followed by Vermont and New Hampshire. I lived for 6.5 years in Flagstaff, AZ, and prefer the "Big Sky," but will move when FSP officially kicks off.

Pretty close to my choices, but I picked South Dakota over Idaho, with hopes that an initial success in one western state could eventually spread to an adjoining one- and the numbers work best for Montana and Wyoming.

The "Galt's Gulch" similarity with the FSP concept is most intriguing to me. I have been fascinated with that concept since I read "Atlas Shrugged" in 1958, and would love to contribute, however modestly, to the effort.

I'd bet that Atlas Shrugged was very much a prototype for Jason when his initial thoughts about the FSP began to gell into his first studies and position papers. Too, you might find the name of a porcupine-flavored trailer court in the fictional description of the FSP movement in 2006 by fellow porcupine Boston T. Party [FSP member #5000!] to be of interest; he too favours a Wyoming initial effort. But if we do become neighbors in the Cowboy State or in Big Sky Country, I think you can look for me around a new little community called Penman.

[archy]

Climate makes little difference to me and I think far too much attention is being paid to the subject.

Well, I don't think a little concern is overblown; there was a recent report of a death or two in a sudden summer blizzard in Wyoming in the last week or so, and there are houses out in Weston County with doors on the second story as a means of coping with winter season snowdrifts. Those who fail to take such potential conditions into account and prepare for them, as well as considering them when it they make and pick their choice arent the sharpest knives in the drawer either.

Im concerned about some specifics of how this is supposed to occur. Are we aiming at a specific region within these states? 20,000 spread widely over any state will have absolutely no effect and make us out to be the fools that many claim. Yes, Ive considered the economics, pro and con, of what Im suggesting.

The political efforts in the new state are not going to be directed by the FSP leadership; whether best done so through existing political parties and leadership or by a new one formed for that specific purpose depend to a large extent on which state is the one chosen. But the info for relocation into specific congressional districts and the state's capital are prepared for Wyoming and Montana, at least. And in New Hampshire, the present governor is a FSP associate member, with a couple of state staffers full-blown pledged porcupines ready to make a go of it whereever the FSP movement takes them; that speaks VERY highly of New Hampshire as a possible new home if that state is the one chosen.

Ive always wondered what kind of retard would live on a volcano (or a major fault or hanging out over the ocean). As much as I like Wyoming, I wont be parking my family on a caldera. I doesnt matter to me if it might not blow for hundreds or thousands of years, its there.

Concur, though potential flash floods and hurricanes aren't necessarily that much of an improvement. However the corner of Wyoming in which I expect to resettle in my granddad's old Homestead Act plot he established just after WWI has a neighboring terrain feature named Rattlesnake Canyon. Nothing to be frightened of, naturally, but a consideration to take into account when walking barefoot through the beautifully flowing grasslands....

I am reliably informed that the dangers of attack from hostile Indians thereabouts have reduced considerably in recent years, with the exception of certain bars on Friday and Saturday nights.

-archy-/-

[archy]

The last (and as far as I know only) time this was tried was lefties moving to Vermont. It worked.

The Latter-Day Saints/Mormons are said to be reasonably well established in their Free State of Utah now as well...

But you may find the original 1972 *Taking Over Vermont* article by Richard Pollack that began the leftie migration to Vermont to be of interest.

-archy-/-

[Taxman]

FSP is an exciting concept -- I'm proud to be #1984 -- joined the very minute I read about it.

LESSGO! What could be better than FReedom loving people working together in their own communities to control their own destiny?

[archy]

I got ties that hold me for about 5 more years, than I'm ready for the dark side of the moon if that's what it takes to get away from the nanny state.

In my opinion, it'll be the *second wave* porcupines like yourself who'll really be the ones who'll make the FSP effort happen. I'm fortunately in a position to make my more early and suddenly, but there's no doubt that some portions of our initial efforts will be unsuccessful until really large numbers of those like yourselves arrive to give us our political muscle and credibility.

Accordingly, I'll do the best I can not to cause irrepairable harm, and blaze a few initial paths. But we're looking at you and those like you as the cavalry that comes to the surrounded wagon train under attack....

I'm personally hoping for banjos and bagpipes rather than bugles upon your arrival, but you can depend on a few cheers from your tired pals who got there a little sooner when you do show up, and you'll be just as welcome.

I don't think it'll be quite as distant or as hostile an enviornment as the dark side of the moon, however. Leastwise, I hope not, and I'm really looking forward to it.

-archy-/-