[Maelstrom]

None "examples" of those helped conservatives be elected to office.

Which is what we're talking about, after all.

There were other liberals who, for various reasons (mostly related to retaining power), have done similar things.

[Scott from the Left Coast]

Well, hell, if you don't now want to talk about policy gains now and just getting people elected: How are you going to get conservatives elected in California when an outright majority of the voters are liberal? Go look at the numbers -- they're out there for everyone with two eyes to see (hell, even one eye will do). You are a minority trying to get a majority that thinks completely different than you do to elect your guy. So are you going to lead with your chin?

Since you are suddenly interested in electibility: How are you going to convince those majorities who think that gays should be given domestic benefits, who think that abortion should be legal, who think social services for immigrants are necessary for the public peace, who think that conservatives are a bunch of Taliban who want to take money from them to give to the rich, how are you going to convince them to renounce everything they believe in and vote for a doctrinaire conservative?

Do you really think your cause is advanced by "glorious" defeats?

If you lived in Oklahoma, I'd say go to it, you're a sure winner. If you lived in NYC, I'd say get behind Giulianni or pay the price in defeat.