Freepers call to action re. Terri Schindler-Schiavo. Make a complaint against Judge Greer:

Various ^ | August 28, 2003

[cake_crumb]

WOW, that's a geat letter. They were BOTH great!

[cake_crumb]

The only things that could be taken as fact are the videos. You chose not to watch them, yet you are making a judgement. It was the videos I pointed you to PARTICULARLY. Your motives are questionable.

[Coleus]

In the State of Florida, USA, the politicians and Judges revere a turtle egg  more than a human being created in God's image and likeness.  Florida Law Chapter 370, US Fish and Wildlife Service.  Terri doesn't stand a chance in FL. May the Lord help her and her family.

Mess with a turtle egg and get a yr. in jail and a $50K fine, abort a child, get paid $750.00, I think the judges and the US congress should address this issue. And we wonder why there is NO respect for HUMAN life created in God's image.  Humans should be protected under the guarantees of the 5th and 14th amendments to the US Constitution.  OK, every in the pool and flap your fins and keep your offspring buried in the sand; we're turtles now.

DEFINITIONS

SEC. 3. For the purposes of this Act-

(8) The term ‘‘fish or wildlife’’ means any member of the animal kingdom, including without limitation any mammal, fish, bird (including any migratory, nonmigratory, or endangered bird for which protection is also afforded by treaty or other international agreement), amphibian, reptile, mollusk, crustacean, arthropod or other invertebrate, and includes any part, product, egg, or offspring thereof, or the dead body or parts thereof.

But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for EVERY careless word they have spoken."--Jesus (Matt. 12:36)

http://endangered.fws.gov/esa.html#Lnk11
http://endangered.fws.gov/esa.html
http://endangered.fws.gov/wildlife.html#Species
http://endangered.fws.gov/wildlife.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/785378/posts
http://endangered.fws.gov/

The Endangered Species Act of 1973
http://endangered.fws.gov/esaall.pdf

Page 4 Sec 3 (c)(8) don't crack those eggs, one might end the "life" of a bird, fish or turtle. I guess certain "mammals" (humans) do not apply.

http://profs.lp.findlaw.com/endanger/endanger_6.html

[cake_crumb]

I'm going to get flamed for this. As much as we dislike Mike, since NO investigation in the cause of her injuries was undertaken, we don't know that he's the perp. There are no videos of him visiting Terri in the hospital. None that the public has been able to see.

[summer]

Great thread from you, RC. Lots of good info here. Thanks for posting. summer

[Brandon]

You aren't going to get a lot of even-handed commentary on this case by asking on these threads. You've probably already guessed that.

Just FYI, this thing has been dragging up and down through both the state and Federal court system for more than a decade. It has been to the state supreme court three times, and to the SCOTUS once (which refused even to hear the case). Last winter, Mrs. Schiavo was examined by a panel of physicians: two appointed by her husband, two appointed by her parents, and one appointed by the judge. Predictably, the four doctors appointed by parties to the case supported the position of the side that hired them. The physician chosen by the judge sided with the husband, and found that Mrs. Schiavo is in a persistent vegetative state, with no expectation that she will ever recover.

In summary, this case has been winding its way through the court system for a very long time. It is standard practice in (so far as I know) every state in the union that when a patient is unable to make decisions for herself, and has left no written instructions as to her wishes, the closest living relative is called upon to make those judgments, in consultation with her physicians. In the course of 10 years of court battles, Mrs. Schialvo's parents have failed to persuade any judge, anywhere, either state or Federal, that Mr. Schialvo is not acting appropriately in his wife's best interest. And despite the allegations circulating about foul play, they have failed to persuade any prosecutor's office that there is reason to believe that a crime has been committed or is being committed.

That's about as good a summary of the situation as you're going to get.

[kimmie7]

Bump

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Thank you for your post at #40. You summed up the case beautifully. Signing the petition.

Have Pinellas County area newspapers shown any interest?

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Charlene, great letter. Thank you. Did you send it to the area newspapers (#22) (I hope!)?

You might want to change the month, though November is a very hopeful month when dealing with this case.

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Sorry, newspaper e-mail links at #21. Good luck!

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Did you read that awesome letter to the underworked Judicial Qualification Commission worker?

Wow.

Thank you. Keep up the good work, TSO.

If you, or any Freepers, need an Florida newspaper e-mail addee list, let me know.

[sport]

The same line of reasoning that allows an unborn child to be murdered all the while protecting a criminal's life.

A criminal means money to the judges and lawyers.
A unborn hild does not.

The Judicary, both Federal and State is running amok.

Each time someone attempts to stand up to them , that are destroyed by the media and members of this forum.

Judge Roy Moore is fighting the his battle in Alabama.

A Judge is not supposed to be an advocate. That is the job for an attorney or Guardian Adlitem. But both Federal and State Judges ignore the law with impunity.

[sport]

The judge is supposed to represent the ideals and wishes of the people of the State, when deciding on legal matters, correct?

22 posted on 08/28/2003 8:08 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife

Nope.

The Judge applies the law.

The people's interests are represented by the District Attorney, State Attorney in criminal cases.

In civil cases private attornies represent the interests of their respective clients.

The Attorney General of a State may represent the interests of the people in both criminal and civil cases[such as price gouging and other matters]

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

From "The Disability Rag's" Ragged Edge Magazine Online:

http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/drn/08_03.shtml#596

 

• FL Gov. Bush asks for Delay for Schiavo Starvation; Judge Unmoved
• Michael Schiavo Bans Catholic Priests From Terri's Bedside
• Terri Schiavo Hospitalized, Husband Keeps Info From Family; Bishop Announces Support For Letting Terri Live

---

FL Gov. Bush asks for Delay for Schiavo Starvation; Judge Unmoved
by Dave Reynolds, Inclusion Daily Express
This article is reproduced here under special arrangement with Inclusion Daily Express Email News Service. Some reporting for this article provided by Ragged Edge magazine.
TAMPA, FL, Aug. 27, 2003 -- "Flooded with 27,000 e-mails urging him to intervene, Florida Gov. Jeb Bush has asked a judge to delay setting a date for removal of a feeding tube sustaining the life of a brain-disabled woman, Terri Schindler-Schiavo," WorldNetDaily.com reports. But Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George W. Greer told reporters he was "operating under a mandate from the 2nd District Court of Appeal" and likely wouldn't change his course. (Read article from The Orlando Sentinel).

"In a letter, Bush asked Pinellas-Pasco Circuit Judge George W. Greer yesterday to keep her alive until a court-appointed guardian can 'independently investigate the circumstances of this case and provide the court with an unbiased view that considers the best interests of Mrs. Schiavo.' " Read story from WorldNetDaily.com

Terri has been the center of a battle between her husband and guardian, Michael Schiavo, who claims she has been in a "persistent vegetative state" for the last 13 years and would want to die, and her parents, who believe she is responsive, aware of her surroundings, would benefit from rehabilitative therapies and should be allowed to continue living.

On Friday, the Florida Supreme Court refused for the second time to intervene on her parent's behalf. All seven of the justices signed the brief order, which noted that the court would not allow any future motions.

The ruling gives the green light to Pinellas County Circuit Court Judge George W. Greer to schedule the removal of the feeding tube that is providing Terri with food and water. That decision could come as early as September 11, when a visitation hearing is scheduled. Once the tube is removed, Terri would likely die in 10 to 14 days. Her parents want an assessment done to see if Terri can be spoon-fed.

Sunday night, Terri was moved back to Morton Plant Hospital with lung congestion and "a substantial infection", just a few days after she was released from the hospital. Terri's parents were not informed of the second hospitalization until Monday afternoon.

Later on Monday afternoon, an attorney for Michael Schiavo submitted a motion to Judge Greer asking that all medical treatment at the hospital be stopped and that Terri be moved back to the hospice that has been her home for the last five years, so she can "die in a peaceful setting with comfort care".

Attorney George Felos admitted in his motion that Terri Schiavo would likely recover from the infection because she is getting antibiotics intravenously at the hospital. Felos wrote, however, that "further treatment (other than comfort care) for the ward's infection and other medical conditions is unnecessary, unwarranted, inappropriate and futile" since it is inevitable that Greer will allow her to starve to death.

The Florida Coalition for Disability Rights asked Bush to appoint a Guardian Ad Litem "to protect the best interests of Terri Schiavo as an individual" and "to ascertain Terri Schiavo's current status and potential for recovery."

"Erring on the side of caution so that the state never takes a human life improperly is a reasonable request," the FCDR said in a media statement. "The fundamental policy issue at stake is whether or not the state can deprive a person with a disability of life because their medical need has become too expensive or some members of the family are no longer willing to care."

"The state stands on a slippery slope. Without caution, the slope leads to a precipice and the precipice leads to death for Terri Schiavo and all like her."

Related:

"Terri Schindler Schiavo Placed in Hospital in Critical Condition" (CNSNews.com)

"Schiavo's husband wants medical treatment stopped" (Associated Press via Lakeland Ledger)

"Terri Schiavo's Reasonable Doubt" (FCDR)

"Terri' Fight" (Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation)

---

---

A Report From Not Dead Yet: The Stories Around The Story

By Rus Cooper-Dowda
iCan contributor
October 17, 2002

---

It is time to tell the smaller stories around the bigger story in the fight to save Terri Schiavo's life. This is true even though no life or death story is ever truly small. There are so many and I have so little space. But, I will try.

There is my own struggle from when I was considered allegedly as good as dead. But I had a single nurse who believed I was still "in there" and able to communicate. With my inked finger and her paper on a clipboard, we proved I indeed had opinions about whether I should live or die.

There was controversy as to whether my recognizable writing was communication or seizure activity until the BIG meeting. The doctors and my husband, who were spending an ever lessening amount of time with me, were granting that gathering as a courtesy to my mother and the nurses who felt I did not deserve to be written off.

At the end of the meeting my then-husband held up a message board to prove I couldn't use it. When asked to communicate something, I laboriously said to my spouse who was not allowing the most basic of care, "D-I-V-O-R-C-E Y-O-U." The doctors all laughed and attributed my phrase to more seizure activity.

Then my mother took the board and asked me to repeat what I had just said. I did so with, "D-I-V-O-R-C-E H-I-M."

There was never a question after that as to whether I could think or respond to my environment. The divorce allowed rehabilitative care, which brought me to being able to write the sentence that ends right now at this period.

There are more stories like mine on The Official Site of the Terri Schindler-Schiavo Foundation Web page at http://www.terrisfight.org

Here are two of them:
One woman was 33 years old and a professional violinist in Los Angeles when she had a brain aneurysm. During surgery, a stroke with consequent paralysis took place. Her family was told not to expect too much. Today, post-onset of disability, she is playing again with more than one orchestra.

One man is a former police officer and accident investigator who has been living with ALS for more than 20 years. He uses a ventilator. This in no way stops him from enjoying what life brings.

Terri's father comments at the Web site how often families are told that a loved one with a disability has no chance of enjoying life or positively contributing to their community. He notes how often that just is not the case.

A man grabbing a smoke by the courthouse door watched me watch Mr. Schindler share that experience this week. Then the smoker told me about a premature baby born to him and his wife 10 years ago. They were pressured to disconnect all life support just because the doctors thought the child would never be able to walk unassisted.

In anguish, the stranger said, "It took him hours to die while we held him. We asked over and over that he be reconnected to the machinery and the docs refused. They said 'It would be harder the next time we did it.'"

To this day, I wonder if we did the right thing. How bad can it be to use a wheelchair ramp instead of stepping up over the curb? What's wrong with touching their arm while they roll instead of holding their hand while they walk?"

Sharing my own story has opened up in others the need to share their own stories of cared about people with disabilities who were denied incredibly basic care...fiancés after accidents, a twin at birth, a spouse after an anesthesia accident during cancer surgery...and on and on and on....

There is a another, much colder newly published story out there worth noting. It is "Litigation as Spiritual Practice" by George Felos, the attorney for the husband. It is his publisher's current Book of the Month. Some are calling Felos, "God in the Courtroom." One reviewer wrote "...I am going to call George Felos 'God's Lawyer' from now on."

Given what he is trying to do to Terri Schiavo in court now, his book and some of the reviews are chilling.

I do have one question, though:
One chapter in Felos' book is titled, "Bargaining for the Contingency Fee." Why would truly spiritual lawyering have to mess with that?

But let me leave you with two last stories:
After I spoke for Not Dead Yet at one of the earlier support rallies this week, 6-year-old twin boys came up and handed me the grubbiest fifty cents in change I have ever touched. But, being gracious, I asked why they were giving it to me.

It was their entire collective weekly allowance and they were giving it to help Terri and her Mommy.

A few minutes later, a slightly older boy came up and wanted to know all about how my wheelchair worked and why I used it. He loved that the controls were very much like his video games at home.

Then I took him for a ride in my lap. Afterwards he said, "So that's being disabled, huh?"

I replied, "Yep, that's about it."

He said, "THAT'S the difference between you and me?"

I said, "Pretty much."

He replied, "So, what's the big deal?"

Indeed.

---

Rus Cooper-Dowda is an online minister and writer who lives in St. Petersburg, Fla. Cooper-Dowda has lupus, a degenerative disc disease and chronic pain. She is attending the Schiavo hearing as a representative for Not Dead Yet.

http://www.ican.com/channels/issues/in_the_news/courts.cfm

Rev. Rus Cooper-Dowda
St. Petersburg, Florida
uudre@aol.com

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Thank you. ((Hugs)) I can't imagine what it's been like for Terri or her parents these past 13 years. How did we not all hear about this case long ago?

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Very good points. Those scales of justice have been sorely unbalanced by UN-humane special interests. Humans are most certainly more important than turtles, or bald eagles or even kangaroo mice.

[Pan_Yans Wife]

But, the judge interprets the law, as given to him by the people of the State. Yes, the legislature creates the law, but this is because the citizens charge them with creating the laws.

[windchime]

I don't believe this!!  You and I have been looking for info in the same places!

I was researching this from an Americans with disabilities perspective....or civil rights issue.  What if Terri had a disease that came under the 'protected' category like HIV/Aids?.....I loved 'Not Dead Yet'.

Links to sites are below.  Maybe someone can find something I didn't. 

Americans with Disabilities Act

Brain Injury Association-Coma

Brain Injury Society-Information

International Center for Bioethics, Culture and Disability   Pro/Con - could be objectionable to some

Hospice Patients Alliance-Home   Patients are referred to as 'terminally ill'

Hospice Patients Alliance-Euthanasia

Not Dead Yet the Resistance   Since 1983, many people with disabilities have opposed the assisted suicide and euthanasia movement. Though often described as compassionate, legalized medical killing is really about a deadly double standard for people with severe disabilities, including both conditions that are labeled terminal and those that are not.

      An alert on Terri Schiavo situation in January 2003

     Disability Groups watch Legal Battle for Woman's Life Press Release-Terri Schiavo

     Disability Advocates Watch Court with Wary Eyes   Press Release-Terri Schiavo

     Pay No Attention to the Woman Behind the Curtain   Court Coverage Terri Schiavo-April 2003

    Coverage of Terri Schiavo Trial   Links to Daily Court Coverage

Euthanasia     INFORMATION FOR RESEARCH ON EUTHANASIA, PHYSICIAN-ASSISTED SUICIDE,LIVING WILLS, MERCY KILLING

 

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

You're leaving out far too many inconvenient details, Brandon. It isn't a "case" - Terri's a person, a human being. Have you bothered to watch the video? The court-appointed doctors claim Terri's reponse to stimuli is 'reflex' - her own mother SEES her daughter respond. Thirteen other doctors disagreed with the doctors who claimed there was no hope. Others who have been in similar states - and recovered - are fighting for Terri, too.

Sorry, there is no second chance here. If this Judge and this husband aren't weighing all evidence - Terri has no hope.

The Governor can pardon a condemned murderer on death row. Terri, helpless and innocent, gets no independent guardian? No one's keeping her husband from divorcing her. NO ONE. Her own mother wants to care for her. Where is the justice?

[Ragtime Cowgirl]

Thank you so much for the links, windchime. This case is sick.