Can A Jew be a Conservative?

My own mind | 8/27/03 | Michael Frank

[jaj_dad]

One of the most prolific issues on this web site are the separation of church and state, and I’d like to address these issues as a Jew who really wants to be a conservative.

Recently there’s been a big hullabaloo about the Ten Commandments as it pertains to US law. Chief Justice Roy Moore has declared that US law is based on the Ten Commandments, and therefore a monument to them is perfectly legit. Mind if I dissect that argument on a case by case basis (in reverse order):

Commandment 10: Thou shalt not covet
OK, reasonable enough commandment – do not obsess over what your neighbor has. But I don’t see any laws based on this commandment. Covet has to do with desire, not action.

Commandment 9: Thou shalt not bear false witness
OK, here’s a good one – don’t lie about what someone else did. Tally this as one for Judge Moore – it’s called perjury.

Commandment 8: Thou shalt not steal
OK, another good one – don’t take what’s not yours. Tally another for Judge Moore – it’s called robbery / theft / burglary, etc.

Commandment 7: Thou shalt not commit adultery
Well, OK, adultery is definitely immoral in this country (regardless of what Hollywood thinks), but I don’t know if anyone can be criminally charged with it. As grounds for divorce, fine, but as far as illegal? Sorry, Judge Moore, can’t give you that one.

Commandment 6: Thou shalt not kill
OK, easy enough – one more for the Judge. (That’s without getting into the issues of state-sanctioned killing e.g. the death penalty – let’s not cloud the issues here)

Commandment 5: Honor thy father and mother
I think the Judge is in for a bad run here. As a parent, I believe in this one wholeheartedly. But as a basis for the legal system? Not happening.

Commandment 4: Remember the Sabbath Day, and keep it holy
I’ll give Judge Moore a half-point for this one. There are Blue Laws in this country, restricting business practices on Sunday (although they are dropping left and right). My problem is, as a Jew, my Sabbath is Friday sundown to Saturday sundown – so by enforcing a Sunday Sabbath, we have this Constitutional Amendment Number 1 that’s being ignored.

Commandment 3: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain
Another half point? Swearing (of any type) can get you into some (minor) trouble with the law, but its more likely George Carlin’s "7 Words" then using the Lord’s name in vain.

Commandment 2: Thou shalt have no other gods before me
Back to that Amendment 1 in the Bill of Rights – not only is that not part of the legal system, it cannot be – otherwise you tread on the "prohibiting free exercise of religion" part.

Commandment 1: I am the Lord your God
Amendment 1 again – legislating this one gets back to the "no law respecting an establishment of religion"

OK, final tally – 4 points for the Judge, 6 points for those who believe in separation of church and state.

Now why do I bring this up in the context of my being Jewish? Because as a member of a minority group (would you believe less than 2% of the US population?) I don’t want to see state-sponsored Christianity. I don’t believe its necessary, and I don’t believe its right. The 4 points I awarded the Judge? They are probably available in the doctrine of most religions – they are the ideals necessary for civilized people to be able to interact with each other.

There is nothing wrong with Christian ideals; as people have pointed out, they are mostly based on the Old Testament, which we Jews also believe in. It is the concept that because these ideals must be promoted means the religion must be promoted that gets to me.

Thanks for letting me vent. As Dennis Miller says "But that’s just my opinion – I may be wrong"

[Behind Liberal Lines]

When did Jews stop believing in the Ten Commandmants? Has my rabbi been lying to me all these years?

[JohnGalt]

That has nothing to do with anything.

Do you believe that the federal government has jurisdiction over a state government on this matter?

If yes, please cite where you are reading from in the Constitution.

If no, you are a conservative.

[Alouette]

I don’t want to see state-sponsored Christianity.

This guy claims to be "Jewish" and he doesn't even know that the 10 Commandments are part of his own religion, not just "Christianity." What a sad joke of liberal putz.

[Huck]

Yes, a Jew can be a conservative, because not all conservatives agree with Judge Moore. Rush Limbaugh, to name just one famous conservative infodude, does not agree with Moore.

[Frank_Discussion]

That's ok, he lied about the meaning of the 6th commandment,too.

"Commandment 6: Thou shalt not kill
OK, easy enough – one more for the Judge. (That’s without getting into the issues of state-sanctioned killing e.g. the death penalty – let’s not cloud the issues here)"

Thou shall not commit MURDER. Someone breaks into your home, drops a couple of planes into buildings, slaughters the innocent - killing in these circumstances has been necessary as of late.

[jaj_dad]

When did Jews stop believing in the Ten Commandmants? Has my rabbi been lying to me all these years?
No, you missed the point. I do believe in the Ten Commandments, I just don't believe that the Government should sponsor their worship - adhere to (some of) the ideals, yes, but the Ten Commandments themselves - leave them out of it.

[Nonstatist]

Hes putting the cart before the horse. The 4 comandments he concedes wouldnt be there if The Constitution and society's mores werent based on Judeo-Christian morality (why look askance at swearing, otherwise?).

The "public " schools are redolent with humanitarian "religious" morality, i.e. all people are inherently good, maternal instincts are a social construct, etc, and theres not a darn thing we can do to stop this type of prosletyzing. So whats the big deal about a couple of stone blocks?

[Robert A Cook PE]

Question really is:

Can ANY TRUE, PRACTICING JEW really be liberal?

(Wasn't it the extremist Orthodox sect in upstate NY that "sold" its votes for Clinton's pardon of it's members/rabbi's/leaders who were convicted of fraud?)

Thus, are the members of this "extremist" sect not only directly violating half of the Ten, but enthusiastically sponsoring a woman who willingly, deliberately, enthusiastically violates the other 5?

[jaj_dad]

This guy claims to be "Jewish" and he doesn't even know that the 10 Commandments are part of his own religion, not just "Christianity." What a sad joke of liberal putz.
Actually, it's the implementation of the Ten Commandments that I'm worried about. If Judge Moore interprets Commandment 1 as referring to Jesus Christ, and administers laws accordingly, then that is what bothers me, not the commandment itself.
By the way, I do appreciate the name calling - that hasn't happend to me on this site yet. Thanks for the baptism </sarcasm

[Michael.SF.]

Did not the Jews originally posess the Ten commandments?

Moses is as much an icon to the Jews as Mary is to Christianity. What am I missing here?

[Outer Limits]

Can A Jew be a Conservative?

Ask Michael Medved.... I dare you

[My2Cents]

I guess the question I have is how does having a rock monument with the 10 Commandments on them translate into having government sponsor their worship? Our laws criminalizing murder can be considered an extension of the commandment "Thou shalt not kill." This is not considered "worshipping" the 10 Commandments. If we are not a nation whose laws are derived from the moral teachings of the Bible (mainly, the Hebrew Bible), then maybe we should decriminalize murder. I mean, in Islamic countries, it seems perfectly OK to kill, say, one's own daughter if she was the victim of rape, because she's now "unclean." Take away the 10 Commandments, and maybe those perverse Islamic cultures are right. Take away the 10 Commandments and I couldn't call Islamic cultures "pervserse."

[My2Cents]

Ask Michael Medved

Best answer yet.

[Grit]

Chief Justice Roy Moore has declared that US law is based on the Ten Commandments, and therefore a monument to them is perfectly legit.

Not exactly, Justice Moore has stated that Alabama law is grounded in a belief in G d. And that the constitution does not grant the Federal Govt (Judicial or Legislative branch) the power to legislate how the states or the people recognize and acknowledge their religion.

[bvw]

Limbaugh waited until so many cards were turned over the outcome was a sure thing. THEN he castigates the loser. Big whoop! Real he-man bold play, Rush.

[jaj_dad]

That's ok, he lied about the meaning of the 6th commandment,too.
"Commandment 6: Thou shalt not kill"
Sorry about that - the website I was using as reference used the word "kill". I didn't realize other translations use "murder". Personally, I am in favor of the death penalty in certain situations, but I didn't want to go off on a tangent.

[bvw]

I shouldn't be so hard on Mr. Limbaugh. He's a good guy, for a cat lover.

[Brad’s Gramma]

Can A Jew be a Conservative? Ask Michael Medved.... I dare you

Ha! I DOUBLE DARE you!!!!!!

[SuziQ]

How could an observant Jew NOT be a conservative?

As far as the Ten Commandments go, it is the ideal on which Common Law is based. Common law is what is at the basis of all our laws in this country, so it can be said that ALL of our laws have some basis in the Ten Commandments. The fact that you cannot find a law based on one or two of the Ten Commandments, therefore their display is a violation of the separation of Church and state is a specious argument.