Free trade's victims turning against Bush, GOP

The Herald Sun ^ | August 25, 2003 | associated press

[Cacophonous]

The 16th Amendment was not properly and Constitutionally ratified.

[DragonflyX]

I bet that all those men who have died keeping America free and making it a secure place for business to prosper slumber peacefully tonight knowing that American CEO's can hire non-citizens in order to make it their companies look profitable that quarter and therefore get a big fat bonus.

I know the argument about not being my brother's keeper.

Sometimes you have to think about what is good for America in the long run instead of what is good for you right now.

What if American soldiers get a better offer from another country? Hey, it's free trade.

[null and void]

We all live in the streets and eat mush out of dumpsters... all because of those damn free traitors.

Is this a bad time to mention that I've been "between jobs" for a year, next week? I'm 3 mortgage payments from living on the street. Savings gone.

Yeah. I'm doing lots better than in the previous 30 years of full employment...

[jammer]

Life was meant to be tough, not easy.

Now THAT's a campaign slogan for Bush! But can they at least have some cake?

[Mad Dawgg]

"...all because of those damn free traitors."

(Rasies hand) Here sir!

[null and void]

WOW!

Bingo, unfortunatly.

[Texas_Dawg]

You realize that you sound like a typical 1960s hippie?

You seem to be under the impression these morons would care. They repeatedly say they'd rather be with those hippies than "The Man" (that greedy CEO!).

[Poohbah]

The 16th Amendment was not properly and Constitutionally ratified.

Then the 2nd Amendment wasn't properly and Constitutionally ratified, either.

You SURE you want to go with this argument, or would you prefer to apply the Supreme Court's longstanding doctrine that ratification is a POLITICAL (not LEGAL) matter between the several states and the Congress?

BTW, not ONE state--hell, not even ONE legislator from any of the states--raised any objection to the 16th Amendment being declared ratified at the time.

Not ONE.

Maybe every legislator in every state at the time was a complete idiot.

Or maybe your interpretation of the matter is wrong.

[jern]

Why should I limit what I make to what my employees make? That is the most moronic thing I have ever heard.

[Texas_Dawg]

Now THAT's a campaign slogan for Bush! But can they at least have some cake?

Unbelievable. I bet you complain all the time about politicians who pander and promise handouts to people too.

[Texas_Dawg]

Why should I limit what I make to what my employees make? That is the most moronic thing I have ever heard. Welcome to FRed.

[KevinDavis]

I'm just speaking the truth...

[Poohbah]

But you're not CARING more than these people do!

Why, they tell us how much they care, so they really are better than us, right?

[Bloody Sam Roberts]

The cure for outsourcing is simple. Congress should pass a law saying that no CEO of any US company can make more than 15 times the average wage of his employees.

Include bonuses and that works for me. Write it up and I'll sign it.     =;^)

[Texas_Dawg]

Yeah. I'm doing lots better than in the previous 30 years of full employment...

You are in the small minority.

1 year without a job? Something tells me I could at least find a McDonald's or restaurant near you that has a job opening.

[DoughtyOne]

Poobah, I think you're attributing something to me that I didn't advocate. I do not support tariffs on exports. Besides, would that be an export fee? I don't think those are also called tariffs. Course you might know more than that I regarding the exact phrasiology.

Unions. Who said we need unions? They're history.

There's no more trading off. We're bringing in immigrants to handle all those jobs. In fact I propose rapid rail service to deep in Mexico. Anyone that wants to come can come on it. Borders no longer exist. Anyone who wants to walk across can.

All corporate executive positions will be handled from Asia. They no longer exist in the US. Conferencing and the occasional on site visit will suffice. Those jobs pay between $10k and $20k over there.

Why Poobah, disagreements... we had a hundred million people who thought outsourceing, open borders, H1-Bs were a problem. That didn't stop anyone. We have a rich history of f-ing over anyone who objects. Please, let's be friends.

Again, what's to argue about Poohbah. Our government knows what's best for us. And under this new system, we don't worry about governments. We have open borders and each nation doesn't need a government. Trade entities like NAFTA and the WTO have set the model for the future. International courts and the UN will take care of this stuff. It's totally harmonious.

Well we do have a ballot box, but anyone walking into a polling booth can vote. We did away with citizenship since it was so unfair to immigrants. Today everyone is equal.

We all have service sector jobs. We all make $7.50 an hour, no overtime, no vacations, no medical plans. It really works out great. There's four regional service centers in Equador. They do direct deposit from there.

[harpseal]

You didn't get the memo. It is permissible to call a free-trader a traitor, or Marxist. Just don't call Buchanan a Nazi, or government intervention in the markets socialism.

Now let us all be civil. madd_dawg was the first to use the "Free Traitor" Tokantamish you were teh second and unless you count references to the term without trying to apply it to anyone and deploring its use Rudeby1 is number three I think or it ccould be you Texas_Dawg. do find on the term in thius thread and you will see the who used what exactly where. may we please be more civil ad stick to issues without calling each otehr socialists and traitors off the top.

I freely admit to this in teh past but lets move on and deal with issues regarding our economy.

[janetgreen]

The same thing happened to a friend of ours, he actually trained the Indian guys who took his job! Bush says that men like this need "retraining". BS. They need their jobs. If it was a Democrat President who was encouraging this foreign workers crap, the Republicans would be screaming, but since it is Bush that is allowing it, it seems to be OK with them.

I gave up on Bush, I don't like his pandering to foreign interests at the expense of America.

[Poohbah]

Poobah, I think you're attributing something to me that I didn't advocate.

You were responding to my point about export taxes being illegal under the US Constitution.

I do not support tariffs on exports.

You managed to sound like you did.

Besides, would that be an export fee? I don't think those are also called tariffs. Course you might know more than that I regarding the exact phrasiology.

Let's get something straight: Government taking money at gunpoint = "tax." Call it a "tariff" or a "fee" all you want...it's a "tax."

Only in the Clintonized America are they called "contributions" or other silly euphemisms.

Unions. Who said we need unions? They're history.

Unless, of course, you arrange to subsidize them--as tariffs are intended to do.

[JNB]

That is the problem with the Free Trade/Neo-Con line of defense, it is very simplistic, and very lax when it comes to "facts". Many point out how the average income has come up 1200% since the early 60s, but they forget two things, this is not adjusted for inflation, also a more realistic measure of how well the public at large is doing is compareing the median income of the early 60s and today, comparing the median price of a home with today and comparing the median price of a college education from the early 60s to today. Get these 3 figures and put it on a chart and the results will not look so stellar.

These threads to me point out how bankrupt the ideas of Neo-Cons are. Limbaugh himself when he talks about economics, along with WSJ editorial page collumists such as Grover Norquist have little more than 20 year old talking points to push supply side economics, talking about tax cut this and tax cut that, with generous helping of symbolic words like liberty and freedom plus a almost prozac style induced optimism, again using all the right symbolic words, but almost nothing in the way of substance.