Roy Moore: In God I Trust

Opinion Journal ^ | 08/25/03 | ROY S. MOORE

[Pokey78]

Why I'm standing up for the Ten Commandments in Alabama.

MONTGOMERY, Ala.--The battle over the Ten Commandments monument I brought into Alabama's Supreme Court is not about a monument and not about politics. (The battle is not even about religion, a term defined by our Founders as "the duty we owe to our creator and the manner for discharging it.") Federal Judge Myron Thompson, who ordered the monument's removal, and I are in perfect agreement on the fact that the issue in this case is: "Can the state acknowledge God?"

[Byron_the_Aussie]

...he's a 21st century Huey Long....

"Chief Justice Moore served our country as a Captain in the Military Police Corps of the United States Army. He also served as Battalion Staff Officer at Ft. Riley, Kansas, and as a Company Commander in Vietnam. During his professional career, Justice Moore became the first full-time Deputy District Attorney in Etowah County and served in this position from 1977 until 1982. He returned to private law practice in Gadsden until he was elected Circuit Judge, Place Number One of the Sixteenth Judicial Circuit in Gadsden, in 1992. He served in this capacity from 1992 until his election as Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of Alabama in November 2000."

[BenR2]

It means whatever you, as an individual, believe those deities to be.

//////////
On the contrary, as far as our country's founding documents are concerned, it means what it meant to the framers when they drafted that phraseology -- not what it "means to Luis Gonzalez or BenR2." (Strict construction, and all that.)

Last time I checked, there were no Buddhists, Hindus, Muslims, Wiccans, or New Agers involved in drafting either the Declaration or the Constitution. The concept of God they held was broadly Judaeo-Christian in nature.

There were no references to the Upanishads or the Qur'an in the correspondence of the Founders, as far as I am aware, while there were a plethora of references to the Scriptures.

And that just seems to gall you terribly for some reason unknown to me.

If the commandments on Moore's display are so "Protestant," then please explain to me why there has been some significant Orthodox Jewish and Catholic support for his stand?

[BenR2]

Why would any of those people be immigrants?


/////////////
Why not? They are sworn in as citizens monthly? Why are you attacking my honest proposition? I am comparing the relative freedoms that they enjoyed in the Muslim, Buddhist, or Hindu countries of origin vis-a-vis the freedoms they enjoy here where our legal system is manifestly rooted in the Judaeo-Christian tradition (as per Judge Moore's argument).

I am in no way denying that there are Muslims, Buddhists, or Hindus born in this country. And I never intended to deny it. You just are trying to wriggle out of my argument. If not: answer it.

[sinkspur]

Long was in it for money, etc. Moore is in this for principle.

Moore has already run for office once, for the office he now holds as Supreme Court Chief Justice, on the the back of the 10 Commandments he displayed in his courtroom. In fact, that was the single issue he ran on in 1998.

If you think Moore is doing this for "principle," then you're a dupe.

Moore missed filing two stays which would likely have been granted.

Two.

I'm sorry, but Moore wanted this result, and will use whatever result to run for higher office.

You watch.

[sport]

What is the Statute number that Judge Moore was alleged to violate?

[BenR2]

As a citizen of Alabama, he could have not placed the monument in the Alabama Justice building in complete secrecy, and after hours.

//////////
Yes he could. He is a citizen of Alabama who just happens to have been elected Chief Justice of the Alabama State Supreme Court. What time of day he moved the display in is of no bearing in this argument, and you know it. You would be just as angry as you are now if he had moved it in during daylight hours.

[Byron_the_Aussie]

Sinky?

Turn around, I want to talk to you.

How dare you call Judge Moore, a man whose shoes you are not even fit to wipe, 'a 21st century Huey Long'?

[BenR2]

There have been Muslimns in the United States since before the Revolutionary War, Buddhists and many other religions for hundreds of years.

//////////
Duh? Really? Man, Luis, you are SUCH a genius.

(Please answer my argument -- instead of postulating the obvious?)

[xzins]

I understand what you mean, but the specific words in the Constitution do not say anything about running roughshod over the Catholics.

They do say specifically, "CONGRESS shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."

Congress...no law...establishment of religion

Has Congress established a religion? For that matter, has Roy Moore established a religion?

[Byron_the_Aussie]

..if you think Moore is doing this for "principle," then you're a dupe...

...you're an expert on principles, now?

[Luis Gonzalez]

Mine.

"Because the establishment in question is not necessary for the support of Civil Government. If it be urged as necessary for the support of Civil Government only as it is a means of supporting Religion, and it be not necessary for the latter purpose, it cannot be necessary for the former. If Religion be not within the cognizance of Civil Government how can its legal establishment be necessary to Civil Government? What influence in fact have ecclesiastical establishments had on Civil Society? In some instances they have been seen to erect a spiritual tyranny on the ruins of the Civil authority; in many instances they have been seen upholding the thrones of political tyranny: in no instance have they been seen the guardians of the liberties of the people." -- James Madison

[sinkspur]

Do you honestly think that a Hindu or a Buddhist or a Muslim immigrant to this country has MORE or LESS freedom in America than he does in his home of origin?

What if the Hindu or Muslim or Buddhist was born here? He should have the same freedoms you and I have.

Your premise suggests a second-class citizen status, Ben, and you ought to be ashamed.

[ClancyJ]

"Judge Thompson never declared the Alabama Constitution unconstitutional, but the essence of his ruling was to prohibit judicial officers from obeying the very constitution they are sworn to uphold. In so doing, Judge Thompson and all who supported his order, violated the rule of law.

Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor and my fellow justices have argued that they must act to remove the monument to preserve the rule of law. But the precise opposite is true: Article VI of the Constitution makes explicitly clear that the Constitution, and the laws made pursuant to it, are "the supreme Law of the Land." Judge Thompson and the judges of the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals have all sworn oaths which bind them to support the Constitution as it is written--not as they would personally prefer it to be written.

By subjugating the people of Alabama to the unconstitutional edict by Judge Thompson, that public officials may not acknowledge God, the attorney general and my colleagues have made the fiat opinion of a judge supreme over the text of the Constitution. While agreeing with me that the Constitution is supreme, and that the opinion of Judge Thompson was contrary to the Constitution, the attorney general has argued that he must follow an order he himself believes to be in direct violation of the supreme law of the land."

Judge Thompson is ignoring the constitution and making law. This law undercuts what the constitution says. A very sneaky way of subverting our constitution without having to get an amendment to change it. A judge makes a ruling ignoring what the consitution says and then the law rather than what the constitution says is in effect.

[BenR2]

I'm sorry, but Moore wanted this result, and will use whatever result to run for higher office.

You watch.

//////////////
Of course, you are sorry -- just as I am delighted at this prospect.

Because a man runs for office, he is corrupt? Some logic. According to that line of reasoning, Reagan and Bush are corrupt.

(They ran for office, didn't they?)

[sinkspur]

Byron, you've turned into a thread Church Lady.

You don't advance any arguments; you just snipe.

Buffoonish.