Roy Moore: In God I Trust

Opinion Journal ^ | 08/25/03 | ROY S. MOORE

[Pokey78]

Why I'm standing up for the Ten Commandments in Alabama.

MONTGOMERY, Ala.--The battle over the Ten Commandments monument I brought into Alabama's Supreme Court is not about a monument and not about politics. (The battle is not even about religion, a term defined by our Founders as "the duty we owe to our creator and the manner for discharging it.") Federal Judge Myron Thompson, who ordered the monument's removal, and I are in perfect agreement on the fact that the issue in this case is: "Can the state acknowledge God?"

[F16Fighter]

" Find a quarter and call someone who is interested in your whining over the graven image.'

LOL -- It's YOU who have whined -- having referred to the Ten Commandments monument as "nothing more than a graven image which people are worshipping."

But I digress...You have failed to answer ANY of my questions to you at Post #185. I won't hold my breath.

[F16Fighter]

"Did you hear about the wording of the sign, held by the counter-protester? I'll rustle up a link."

No, didn't hear about it yet. Hook me up a link when you find it...

[PleaseNoMore]

OK. Sure. I will be sure to do that first thing in the AM. Happy? What's wrong diverdogz? Does it offend you that perhaps our Judeo Christian heritage may have, in fact, influenced the laws of this land?

[Diverdogz]

Does it offend you that perhaps our Judeo Christian heritage may have, in fact, influenced the laws of this land?

Judeo Christian heratige does influence our laws...as much as English Common law. Nice try at shifting your argument. But that is not what we are discussing.

You listed the four Commandments which are consitent with our Laws as proof that the Ten Commandments are the basis of our law. Then you asked... Want More?

I called your bluff. You have no more. The other Six Commandments not only have no basis in our law, BUT ARE SPECIFICALLY EXCLUDED FROM OUR LAWS!!!!!! See my Post #190.

I found it particularly ironic that your screen name is Pleasenomore when you, in fact, have no more.

I anxiously await your answer as to how the remaining six commandments are a part of the legal system. Good luck, because they aren't.

Again, the claim that the 10 Commandments are the basis of our legal systems is shown to be a fraud. Four Commandments - the "No Brainer" ones have a legal basis, and the other's are EXCLUDED from law. Your claim is hereby debunked. Slam Dunk.

[snerkel]

LOL -- It's YOU who have whined -- having referred to the Ten Commandments monument as "nothing more than a graven image which people are worshipping."
I did not refer to the 10 Commandments monument as "nothing more than a graven image which people are worshipping". I stated, "I am a conservative Christian who has watched Roy Moore turn this monument into nothing more than a graven image which people are worshipping. Partial statements can be misleading. In this case, it was used to lie.

But I digress...You have failed to answer ANY of my questions to you at Post #185. I won't hold my breath.

They appeared to be rhetorical questions and an attempt to deflect away from the monument. But since you have been so polite, there are many items which people worship, some of them are religious icons. However, the Christian symbols and monuments you mentioned are not being used to draw attention to a Judge for political gain, are they?

[PleaseNoMore]

No basis in our law you say? Honor thy Mother and Father has influenced family law, with particular respect to elderly abuse as is evident in the recent symposium given on the aspects of Elder Abuse in Maryland. The American family is protected in the Fifth and Seventh commandments: "Honor thy father and mother"; "Thou shalt not commit adultery." So yes, these HAVE basis in our laws historically.

The Fourth Commandment says, "Honor the Sabbath Day to keep it holy." The weekend is from the Judeo-Christian tradition rooted in the Fourth Commandment, and it is protected by federal laws, which, among other things, prohibit the delivery of mail on Sundays. So yes, these HAVE basis in our laws.

The First Commandment is, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." Our national motto is "In God We Trust. So again, we see the basis.

[Elsie]

 

Deuteronomy 5:6-22
 6.  "I am the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.
 7.  "You shall have no other gods before  me.
 8.  "You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below.
 9.  You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me,
 10.  but showing love to a thousand [ generations] of those who love me and keep my commandments.
 11.  "You shall not misuse the name of the LORD your God, for the LORD will not hold anyone guiltless who misuses his name.
 12.  "Observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy, as the LORD your God has commanded you.
 13.  Six days you shall labor and do all your work,
 14.  but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your ox, your donkey or any of your animals, nor the alien within your gates, so that your manservant and maidservant may rest, as you do.
 15.  Remember that you were slaves in Egypt and that the LORD your God brought you out of there with a mighty hand and an outstretched arm. Therefore the LORD your God has commanded you to observe the Sabbath day.
 16.  "Honor your father and your mother, as the LORD your God has commanded you, so that you may live long and that it may go well with you in the land the LORD your God is giving you.
 17.  "You shall not murder.
 18.  "You shall not commit adultery.
 19.  "You shall not steal.
 20.  "You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.
 21.  "You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. You shall not set your desire on your neighbor's house or land, his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbor."
 22.  These are the commandments the LORD proclaimed in a loud voice to your whole assembly there on the mountain from out of the fire, the cloud and the deep darkness; and he added nothing more. Then he wrote them on two stone tablets and gave them to me.

1. We USED to have Blue Laws: Sunday closure of businesses......

2. Obvious

3. We USED to have laws against this......

4. Obvious

5. Obvious

 

It looks like five.........

[Elsie]

This would look a whole lot like a sharia nation if we were to carry out Moses' law (Which even JESUS refused to exercise on the adultress and others). This is why the commandments need to be done away with in government buildings, I suspect. We don't need our court buildings set up as "judeo christian" madrasssas.

It goes back further than that: David & Bathsheba did NOT get stoned.

---

BTW, Jesus COULDN'T! He was not a WITNESS to the alledged sin, "Where are your accusers?", He asked........

[snerkel]

Sunday is not the Sabbath. The Sabbath is sundown Friday evening to sundown Saturday evening.

[PleaseNoMore]

Whether the present generation likes it or not, our principles of justice, originally, were primarily based on the Ten Commandments. Merely taking down Ten Commandments monuments will not obliterate that historical fact. Acknowledging that fact is simply acknowledging truth. And denying that history is simply another way of denying truth or wishing it would go away--another way of trying to "re-write" history.

The Establishment Clause does not require that the public sector be insulated from all things which may have a religious significance or origin.

[Elsie]

Oops! I left out verse 11:

we USED to have laws against public swearing and blasphemy.

---

So, the SABBATH is not Sunday? I never said it was: you wanted some laws that were BASED on the Ten, I produced some.

[Diverdogz]

It is a major stretch to say that laws which prevent mistreatment the elderly are derived from the commandment "Honor thy Mother and Father". When kids become legal adults (18 or 21, whatever), they have absolutely zero legal responsibility for their parents. The parent needs help and the kid refuses...the law can't make them help. Any decent person would help their parents, but there is no legal obligation. The laws preventing abuse of the elderly apply to anyone, not just the kids. And before the kids turn 18, they don't have to "honor" their parents either.

Wow, No mail delivery on Sunday...and most government agencies are closed on weekends. Yep, that is remnant of Judeo Christianity. But it hardly rises to the level of "Keeping the Sabbath Holy". There is no law which says I can't work my butt off on Sunday. Many people do. I can drink liquor, watch football, go diving, and do any manner of 'unholy' things and there isn't a darn thing our laws can do to stop me. Darn that First amendment which says the Government shall make no law respecting the establishment or free exercise of religion. It is by Tradition, not by adherence to the Commandments that we take off on weekends.

Yes, the first Commandment says "Thou shall have no other Gods before me". And Our National Motto does say "In God We Trust". But what kind of lame law is that? Am I forced to Trust in a God? Absolutely not. The first amendment guarentees that I don't.

Again, SIX of the TEN Commandments are specifically excluded from our legal system. I am extremely grateful that our founding fathers intended to keep the government out of my spiritual life. I'll fight like hell to keep the fundamentalists of any religion from imposing a favored religion.

Gone to bed. Thanks for your reply! Your friend, Diverdogz.

[Elsie]

The Establishment Clause does not require that the public sector be insulated from all things which may have a religious significance or origin.

You are right, of course.

This whole THING is a power struggle over who is going to be boss.

---

When all the shoutin' and shovin' and posturing and praying is over, there WILL be a group of people who will LOOK into ALL the laws that are imagined or real in this case, and make a decision.

[snerkel]

Thanks.

[PleaseNoMore]

While it my be a stretch to say that the elderly abuse laws derived stright from the ten commandments the basis is still there.

As for government agencies being closed on SAunday, the basis is still there.

Just because the motto is "lame" the basis is till there.

As Elsie pointed out in her post, there used to be laws against swearing in public. Again the basis is there.

That is what you asked for. The basis. That is what you got. Just because you disagree or what have you does not negate that that the basis of the principles of our legal system is deeply rooted in the Judeo Christina ten commandments.

[Jorge]

Again, SIX of the TEN Commandments are specifically excluded from our legal system. I am extremely grateful that our founding fathers intended to keep the government out of my spiritual life. I'll fight like hell to keep the fundamentalists of any religion from imposing a favored religion.

You are right. I believe Judge Moore is doing Christianity a diservice.
Not only is he wrong in principle, but he is turning people off with his hostile defiant and angry rhetoric. This is not attracting people to Christianity. Quite the opposite.

[PleaseNoMore]

Early in our history the Justices were strict constitutionalists. Today they tend through their decisions to be molders of culture, makers of law in contrast to the original intention of our founders who set up the three branches of government: the executive, the legislative, and the judicial. They may be taking out of the hands of the American people the most basic moral and cultural decisions.

In 1892 our Supreme Court Decision in Church of the Holy Trinity v. United States said, "Our laws and our institutions must necessarily be based upon and embody the teachings of The Redeemer of mankind. It is impossible that it should be otherwise; and in this sense and to this extent our civilization and our institutions are emphatically Christian...This is a religious people.
This is historically true. From the discovery of this continent to the present hour, there is a single voice making this affirmation...we find everywhere a clear recognition of the same truth...These, and many other matters which might be noticed, add a volume of unofficial declarations to the mass of organic utterances that this is a Christian nation." The Supreme Court studied this for 10 years before writing this unanimous decision which clearly states that we are not a pluralistic, but we are a Christian nation.

In 1931, in the case of United States v. Macintosh, 283 U.S. 605 the court said, "We are a Christian people...according to one another the equal right of religious freedom, and acknowledge with reverence the duty of obedience to the will of God."

In 1952 the Supreme Court, in the case of Zorach v. Clauson, 343 U.S. 306 307 313 stated: "We are a religious people and our institutions presuppose a Supreme Being...When the state encourages religious instruction or cooperates with religious authorities by adjusting the schedule of public events to sectarian needs, it follows the best of our traditions. We cannot read into the Bill of Rights a philosophy of hostility to religion."

In 1963 the Supreme Court, in the case of School District of Abington Township v Schempp, 374 U.S. 203,212,225 pp.21, 71, records: "The State may not establish a 'religion of secularism' in the sense of affirmatively opposing or showing hostility to religion, thus preferring those who believe in no religion over those who do believe."

The latter is just what is happening to America.

[Elsie]

PLEASE!!!

No facts!!!

---

They make my BRAIN hurt!

[an amused spectator]

Besides, the decision against Moore was unanimous-- two Republican judges voted against him as well.

Edmondson, one of the Republican judges who decided against Moore, is the newly appointed chief judge of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals (June 2002), and is probably trying to look "impartial" for the sake of his new office.

It has been my experience with the Stupid Party that people like Edmondson do these sort of "olive-branch" "non-partisan" things for their Democrat opponents, who gleefully take the proffered a**-kissing from the Pubbie chumps, and happily break wind in their faces. While the Pubbie is prostrate from the gassing, the 'Rat then scampers out to the parking lot to key his car.

The Stupid Party never learns:

Using data on appellate panel composition from years 1925 to 1988, we find at both the aggregate and individual case level that, while Democratic chief judges appear slightly more likely to select district court judges on the basis of ideology than their Republican counterparts (particularly when the panel is ideologically divided), these differences are actually quite modest.

LOL! "slightly", "modest" - a crowd of Ivory Tower academics noticed a difference, and "allowed" that Ty Cobb might play hardball a little different than your average Little Leaguer. :-)

[Joe Brower]

"Can the liberties of a Nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just and that his justice cannot sleep forever." -- Thomas Jefferson