Posted on 08/24/2003 3:44:18 PM PDT by DoughtyOne
Listen, it's real simple: Schwarzenegger has got to discover some meaningful conservative positions in his kit bag that will resonate with social conservatives. Being at best a squishy fiscal moderate won't cut it.
Kevin, how many thousand ways can I say that I agree with you, yet it doesn't make a hill of beans worth of difference if Schwarzenegger still remains in the lead? If he does, McClintock cannot win. If Schwarzenegger pulls out entirely, there is no guarantee that McClintock will win. I'm not going to debate McClintock vs Schwarzenegger policy with you, simply because you STILL HAVEN'T FIGURED IT OUT THAT I AGREE WITH YOU. Get it? MCCLINTOCK IS MY FIRST CHOICE!
McClintock is in the best position to strong arm the Terminator into making a needed shift to the right. McClintock is performing an enormously valuable--and largely thankless--service for the Republican Party and cause of conservatism.
You don't need to play McClintock off as a martyr. He is presenting his views to the public, and seeing if they play in the marketplace. Along with you, I hope he is successful. If he is not, Schwarzenegger is nothing more than a fall back position, so that a man 100 times worse than Schwarzenegger doesn't get elected.
McClintock does serve a purpose. That purpose is to try to sell conservative ideas. I support that. That does not make him a martyr.
Schwarzenegger is finding out that he can't masquerade as a conservative and expect conservative votes by default merely because he is famous and glamorous. His fame and glamour are decided negatives in the minds of most social conservatives.
The sad truth is Kevin, Schwarzenegger can do exactly what you (and I by the way) think he shouldn't be able to. If it comes down to choosing between Bustamante or Arnold Schwarzenegger, I will take the liberal Arnald Schwarzenegger. Arnold is not a racist separatist. There's no doubt who I'd vote for.
ARNOLD needs to get with the program if he wants to win.
Arnold is pushing his views like all the other candidates are. Whether you agree with him or not, that is the program. It's how things work. In the end we will have to vote for the candidate who can win over Bustamante. You have every right to withhold that vote if you think Bustamante is better. I'll disagree with you, but it's your right.
15 posted on 08/24/2003 4:46 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
Integrity? Are you sure that's the word you were looking for?
Reagan was affable, but Reagan was conservative. Schwarzenegger may be affable, but he is no Reagan.
He will either destroy himself in the short campaign or, when & if elected, he will finish the destruction of California.
The fellow is a light-weight with extremely heavy baggage. "They" say his best friend in Austria was Kurt Waldheim-Waffen SS. They say Arnold toasted this man by name at his wedding, to the horror of the Kennedy Klan. A failure of judgement.
He can't even announce his campaign in a proper manner & must go to ancient, tainted, & weak sources for advice. He is Perot all over again. He has never gone beyond his own private endeavors & now the 'fans' want to let him have a position of real power & authority-over a crucial portion of the US. How amateurish.
This is a time for principle & character-not on the job training for an actor with amibition far beyond his experience or training.
We will all pay either way. If he fails to be elected, likely Red Davis stays or Bustamonte wins. All of us ( we being almost all tax payers, producers ) will get the bill for a bail-out or we will suffer from the collapse of the state's economy.
17 posted on 08/24/2003 4:50 PM PDT by GatekeeperBookman (impossible and radically idealist notions; strict constructionist; prickly; quarrelsome.)
May I ask what you think you accomplished by saying all this? I could link you to hundreds of posts, if not thousands of posts on this forum that have said nearly the exact same thing you have here. All of it has been repeatedly posted here. And you know what, every conservative on this forum agrees with your take on it.
All this being true, is Schwarzenegger a racist separatist? Does it even bother you that California government would be infiltrated by literally thousands, if not tens of thousands of appointees who are over the 12.5 years, the possible term of the next governor.
If McClintock can't win, can you live with yourself knowing you facilitated Cruz Bustamante becoming governor? That's what it all boils down to. It doesn't boil down to you converting me to be a McClintock supporter. I already am. Every conservative on the forum is. You are trying to win a battle that is already won.
On election day, we will have to caste a vote we can live with. Whatever that decision is, I support your right to vote as you wish, okay?
I will not facilitate Cruz Bustamante becoming governor of California.
This serves to not only belittle the object of his attention, but to maintain his integrity.
Integrity? Are you sure that's the word you were looking for?
Reagan was affable, but Reagan was conservative. Schwarzenegger may be affable, but he is no Reagan.
23 posted on 08/24/2003 5:05 PM PDT by Kevin Curry
Integrity doesn't depend on one's beliefs being identical to yours or mine Kevin. While I probably agree with your beliefs to a great deal, Schwarzenegger's only compulsion is to be true to his own beliefs, even if they are mistaken by your and my standards.
As for Schwarzenegger being Reaganesqe or not, I believe there is a case to be made on at least nine different accounts.
1. He is affable like Reagan
2. He does handle the press well in press conferences
3. He is able to use the television media to his advantage
4. He has stated that he does not like the principle of tax and spend
5. He thinks California's corrupt political system should be reformed
6. He has stated that he wants to get the government off the backs of California's working class
7. He has defended Propisition 13, voted for it and in fact was the guest speaker at the 25th anniversary of it's passage
8. He proposed reform of the state disibility insurance
9. He proposed torte reform (at least I believe I heard him mention that in his conference )
Kevin, I think it's fair to point out his faults. In the current climate I think it is defeatist to do so. We should remain positive regarding McClintock and Schwarzenegger. If McClintock has surpass Schwarzenegger, then we should vote for him.
Schwarzenegger has his faults. We should also recognize that we would have paractically killed at times to have a popular leader that could claim the nine traits I just mentioned above. If McClintock doesn't make it, I'm glad we've got Schwarzenegger to fall back on.
Now will you please direct one to the other side and tell them to stop saying McClintock supporters are really RATS who want to elect Bustamante? Some even use variations of this as their taglines. Do they really think that about the owner of this forum, who supports Tom?
How insulting.
"May I ask what you think you accomplished by saying all this?"
Well, uh, duh, I have a view of this-you asked & now you may read it. Please ignore anything which smacks of reality or does not fit your scenario-Cheerio! Carry on mate!
I find these selective responses to be humorous. The folks that make them try to pass off them off as reasoned. Look, if that line was all I said on the subject, you're response might be termed reasoned. Let's review what else I said.
I could link you to hundreds of posts, if not thousands of posts on this forum that have said nearly the exact same thing you have here. All of it has been repeatedly posted here. And you know what, every conservative on this forum agrees with your take on it.
All this being true, is Schwarzenegger a racist separatist? Does it even bother you that California government would be infiltrated by literally thousands, if not tens of
thousands of appointees who are over the 12.5 years, the possible term of the next governor.
If McClintock can't win, can you live with yourself knowing you facilitated Cruz Bustamante becoming governor? That's what it all boils down to. It doesn't boil
down to you converting me to be a McClintock supporter. I already am. Every conservative on the forum is. You are trying to win a battle that is already won.
This is only part of what else I said. The last part in blue is especially poignant. It explains why it's futal for you to keep repeating the same old stuff over and over and over and over and over and over, as if it's a brand new breath of fresh air. It's isn't. It's a stail horse dropping that everyone is already familiar with and recognizes for what it is. Enough already.
WE AGREE. McClintock is the best candidate. What part of that do you think you understand that nobody else does? Your comments are a complete waste of time.
A wee small suggestion: perhaps in future, you might advise when you want to screen all posts via Freep-mail? I shall just ignore your inquiries in future.
There you go. It just doesn't register with you.
WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock. WE AGREE ABOUT McClintock.
Damn, how many times do you think you have to repeat that McClintock is the better candidate? Everyone agrees with you. Still you start all over explaining why McClintock is the better candidate?
Earth to GatekeeperBookman. Please. Tell us one more time how McClintock is better than Arnold. Then sit down and try to look at this objectively for the first time in your life. McClintock may not be electable. Neither you and I can wave a wond and make that reality. It either happens or it doesn't. If it doesn't, please at least consider preventing Bustamante from becoming governor.
25 posted on 08/24/2003 5:24 PM PDT by GatekeeperBookman (impossible and radically idealist notions; strict constructionist; prickly; quarrelsome.)
Anyhow, it's not my state. Good luck, California FReepers!
Good essay, Doughty One. Thank you for your efforts, I enjoyed reading it.
Now will you please direct one to the other side and tell them to stop saying McClintock supporters are really RATS who want to elect Bustamante? Some even use variations of this as their taglines. Do they really think that about the owner of this forum, who supports Tom?
How insulting.
29 posted on 08/24/2003 5:41 PM PDT by truthkeeper
From my commentary:
Snip:
The adult members of California's voting public will chose their candidates by whatever set of principles they adhere to. Many of them will do so with flawed logic
or having been misled. None the less, they will go through the process acting like adults. Some will back Conservative candidate Tom McClintock. Some will back
a moderate in some ways, liberal in others, candidate Arnold Schwarzenegger. Still others will will back a liberal racist separatist, Cruz Bustamante. Reasoned state
citizens will discuss the issues and polices adopted or proposed by these candidates. They will agree, they will disagree, they will debate. They will not jump up and
down and scream like kindergarten children. They will not have to be told hundreds of times why some things simply are.
Nobody likes it when a kindergarten student direct from Camp Dark Ubiquitous joins the adult discussion. No matter how many times you patiently explain a detail
to them, they dodge, they ignore, they make false claims, they provide clearly misleading partial quotes or half truths. As much as these children are recognized for
what they are when they drift on by, some of the same folks who recognize them for what they are, feel perfectly free to use those same tactics as long as it's in
defense of their flavor of (R).
The nice thing about this new sequel, is that each of us get to choose not only the ending we want, but we get to choose the course of action that will lead up to it.
How cool is that? Now that doesn't mean that each of us will wind up with the exact ending we desire, but at least we can determine the course of action that will
lead up to the ending that the majority desires. That's the way our political system works folks.
We can either choose to conduct ourselves as adults, or we can choose to act like kindergarten screw-ups.
Snip:
Most of the adults have made it very clear that they wish for a McClintock win.
Snip:
The adults understand that Cruz Bustamante cannot be the next Governor of California. The Kindergarten Students, may have to tolerate a Kindergarten
Candidate. Reality is a bitch. But it is sometimes a better reality than hell. And hell is what California will turn into under Bustamante.
Roll on the floor, jump up and down. Kick and scream all you like. Do it right now on this thread. Get it out of your system. Then let's gather behind the
Kindergarten Candidate if and when the time comes. If we're fortunate, that time won't come. But if it does, can we please agree to do it as adults?
I would hope that my comments were written in such a way that all Republican sides could claim this article for themselves, even though I focues on the guy who is being trashed the most. Schwarzenegger's supporters, those who choose him over McClintock from the start (I'm not convinced there are as many of these as some people think, since we're talking right past each other), should not criticize McClintock or his supporters, except where they have adopted the attack dog mentality.
Neither side is going to gain anything for our cause by trashing the same people the people from DU, the DNC or California democrats and it's socialists allies would.
Where Schwarzenegger backers are trashing McClintock and his supporters, outside the parameters I just mentioned, they are wrong to do so.
I would hope the McClintock and Schwarzenegger supporters would have the class to fall in behind the front runner around the 15th of September. The last three weeks we need to work as a unified force for the front runner. Polls MUST be able to reflect this surge or any benefit from a groundswell will be utterly destroyed, defeating the purposes of our front running candate and our cause.
Bustamante is praying for us to remain un-unified right up to October 7th. Screw him!
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