Lice offer clues to origin of clothing

USA TODAY ^ | 8/18/2003 | Tim Friend

[demlosers]

Human body lice appear to owe their origin to the invention of clothing, and the types that reside on our bodies appear to have hitchhiked along as modern humans migrated out of Africa about 100,000 years ago.

Mark Stoneking and colleagues at the Max Planck Institute for Evolutionary Anthropology in Leipzig, Germany, made the connection between the origin of clothing and the rise of human body lice by checking so-called molecular clocks found in the cells of all living creatures.

[Aric2000]

and 100?

[Aric2000]

You beat me, you POOPHEAD!!! You got 100!! ;)

But yes, I nailed it alright.

Thank you for noticing.....

[balrog666]

You can have 200.

[Junior]

This thread won't go to 200.

[Lurking Libertarian]

Junior, if Genesis is allegory what basis do you have to take anything in Scripture literally?

From my (Jewish) perspective, the answer is that the word "Torah" (the Hebrew name for the Pentateuch) means "the rules." (Jesus called it "the Law"). The Torah is to teach us what to do, how to live our lives. The stories in the Torah may be history or allegory or myth; that is not important: they are there to support the rules. What I find ironic about the attitude of some Christians towards Genesis 1 is that they insist upon the literal truth of the story, but reject its one clear teaching-- that the seventh day should be observed as the day of rest. One Orthodox Rabbi I discussed this with once compared this to "throwing away the orange and keeping the pits."

This is not meant as in any way disrespectful of your faith; just giving you my perspective.

[Aric2000]

The history of christianity changing the holy day from Saturday to SUNday is very fascinating as well.

It has to do with the fact that Sunday was the holy day of the pagan religion that devoted Sunday as it's holy day, and in order to fit in with that religion and make more converts to Christianity, it changed it's holy day to match the pagans.

There were also some other changes made to the Chritian religion at that time, but this is NOT the thread to go into those. Nor would it probably be a good idea to go into those at all.

[Junior]

I married a Seventh Day Adventist. She's since converted to Catholicism, but we still attend Mass on Saturdays because she's convinced me that that is the Sabbath prescribed in the Bible.

One should point out that, even if modern Christians actually considered Sunday the Sabbath, they are not following any of the guidelines laid down for its proper observance. Anyone who has had to contend with the post-Church restaurant rush on Sundays will know of what I speak.

[Aric2000]

I have always wondered, and since you are here, I might as well ask you.

Why did the Jewish people NOT accept Jesus as the Jewish Messiah?

I have some ideas, but from what I understand, the Jewish Messiah, and the Christian Messiah are 2 different things.

The Jews are waiting for a certain type of person, and Jesus did not or was unable to fit that criteria.

Am I at all close?

Thanks.

[Aric2000]

LOL, got that right.

I have Mormons that live next door, and on Sunday they disapear for about 12-15 hours, and they come home absolutely exhausted.

I think they work harder on Sunday then they do any other day of the week.

And if I want to go out for brunch on Sunday, I try and get there before 9, because the place will bust out at the seams after 10.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you for your questions!

I'm am confused regarding you as you have claimed to be for the Word of God but seem to consistently take the pro-evolution side. I really have no idea where you are parked on all this. You were the one who chose to stand against me on many threads. You don't have to explain this if you don't wish, but understand that you have me and probably some others confused as to where you stand.

I am not standing against you, DittoJed2! My views are directed to the material presented and sometimes to the form of the debate itself. But it is not personal. If you have taken my responses personally, I apologize for my failure to be clear.

I have no hostility to any side in the evolution debate. My personal views are probably closer to Intelligent Design, but they are my own and are more specifically described in these two articles:

Origins and Scripture

Evolution through the Back Door

With regard to the Word, I know the Word to be the Logos as described in John 1 and made flesh in Jesus Christ. I believe the Bible is inerrant. But whereas I read the Bible with my eyes, the Spirit within me reads the Word. IOW, the Word is alive.

[Alamo-Girl]

Thank you so much for the heads up! Point taken.

[DittoJed2]

Geologic ages, fossil remains, and now DNA, ALL point to evolution as the most probable cause of ALL of it.
In what will no doubt be dismissed as the obligatory creationist quote list, I submit the following quotes regarding the evidence from EVOLUTIONISTS. I will likely be accused of taking quotes out of context, but it is incumbent upon you to show how they are out of context. The quotes speak for themselves, even if those quoted still hold to the evolutionary views that their own words discredit.

". . . contrary to what is widely assumed by evolutionary biologists today, it has always been the anti-evolutionists, not the evolutionists, in the scientific community who have stuck rigidly to the facts and adhered to a more strictly empirical approach." — Michael Denton

"Despite the fact that no convincing explanation of how random evolutionary processes could have resulted in such an ordered pattern of diversity, the idea of uniform rates of evolution is presented in the literature as if it were an empirical discovery. The hold of the evolutionary paradigm is so powerful, that an idea which is more like a principle of medieval astrology than a serious twentieth-century theory has become a reality for evolutionary biologists."— Michael Denton

"Despite the bright promise that paleontology provides a means of ‘seeing’ evolution, it has presented some nasty difficulties for evolutionists the most notorious of which is the presence of "gaps" in the fossil record. Evolution requires intermediate forms between species and paleontology does not provide them." — David B. Kitts

"The history of most fossil species includes two features particularly inconsistent with gradualism: 1) Stasis. Most species exhibit no directional change during their tenure on earth. They appear in the fossil record looking much the same as when they disappear; morphological change is usually limited and directionless. 2) Sudden appearance. In any local area, a species does not arise gradually by the steady transformation of its ancestors; it appears all at once and ‘fully formed.’" — S. J. Gould

"Well, we are now about 120 years after Darwin [79'] and the knowledge of the fossil record has been greatly expanded. We now have a quarter of a million fossil species but the situation hasn't changed much. The record of evolution is still surprisingly jerky and, ironically, we have even fewer examples of evolutionary transition than we had in Darwin's time. By this I mean that some of the classic cases of Darwinian change in the fossil record, such as the evolution of the horse in North America, have had to be discarded or modified as a result of more detailed information—what appeared to be a nice simple progression when relatively few data were available now appears to be much more complex and much less gradualistic. So Darwin's problem has not been alleviated...." — David Raup

"The world does not explain itself . . . it is absurd for the Evolutionist to complain that it is unthinkable for an admittedly unthinkable God to make everything out of nothing, and then pretend that it is more thinkable that nothing should turn itself into everything." — G. Chesterton

“The extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology. The evolutionary trees that adorn our textbooks have data only at the tips and nodes of their branches; the rest is inference, however reasonable, not the evidence of fossils.”- Steven Jay Gould

“The known fossil record fails to document a single example of phyletic evolution accomplishing a major morphologic [structural] transition and hence offers no evidence that the gradualistic model can be valid.” - Dr. Steven Stanley, department of Earth and Planetary Sciences, John Hopkins University.

“It is a mistake to believe that even one fossil species or fossil ‘group’ can be demonstrated to have been ancestral to another. The ancestor-descendant relationship may only be assumed to have existed in the absence of evidence indicating otherwise.”- Gareth J. Nelson, of the American Museum of Natural History

“…no real evolutionist, whether gradualist or punctuationist, uses the fossil record as evidence in favor of the theory of evolution as opposed to special creation.”- Mark Ridley, British zoologist.

"...if man evolved from an apelike creature he did so without leaving a trace of that evolution in the fossil record."- Lord Solly Zuckerman, M.A.,M.D.,D.Sc., British Anatomist.

“For almost 20 years I thought I was working on evolution…. But there was not one thing I knew about it…. So for the last few weeks I’ve tried putting a simple question to various people and groups of people. Question is: ‘Can you tell me anything you know about evolution, any one thing, any one thing that is true?’ I tried that question on the geology staff at the Field Museum of Natural History and the only answer I got was silence. I tried it on the members of the Evolutionary Morphology Seminar in the University of Chicago, a very prestigious body of evolutionists, and all i got there was silence for a long time and eventually one person said, ‘Yes, I do know one thing -–it ought not to be taught in high school.’ … During the past few years… you have experienced a shift from evolution as knowledge to evolution as faith…. Evolution not only conveys no knowledge, but seems somehow to convey anti-knowledge.”- Colin Patterson, senior paleontologist at the prestigious British Museum of Natural History.

Evolution is unproved and unprovable. We believe it only because the only alternative is special creation and that is unthinkable.- Sir Arthur Keith, British Anthropologist.

[DittoJed2]

The answer to the Sabbath question is found in the words of Christ. This is why we consider it non-binding on Gentiles. We celebrate the day of rest as the early church did by gathering together on the Lord's day (Sunday, day of the resurrection).

Mark 2: 23 And it came to pass, that he went through the corn fields on the sabbath day; and his disciples began, as they went, to pluck the ears of corn.

24 And the Pharisees said unto him, Behold, why do they on the sabbath day that which is not lawful?

25 And he said unto them, Have ye never read what David did, when he had need, and was an hungred, he, and they that were with him?

26 How he went into the house of God in the days of Abiathar the high priest, and did eat the shewbread, which is not lawful to eat but for the priests, and gave also to them which were with him?

27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

[DittoJed2]

That is not true. The Christians celebrated by meeting on the Lord's day, the day of His resurrection.

[Aric2000]

Indeed, ever wonder why that is? Why he rose on a Sunday that is, and why he died on a Friday?

Look into the older pagan religions that Christianity was trying to displace, and you will find your answer.

The facts JUMP right out at you if you take the time to ACTUALLY study those ancient religions and the time of their displacement by christianity. oh and the time of the ACTUAL writings of the new testament, when they were actually put to paper.

It will also open your eyes to all kinds of other possibilities as well, so maybe you don't want to go there.

Willful ignorance, at it's best.

[DittoJed2]

Aric, you REALLLLLLLLY don't want to go there.

[DittoJed2]

Read and learn

[Aric2000]

Let's see some dates attached to those quotes please.

Leaving off dates is a very BIG creationist tactic.

So, let's take a look at the dates of those quotes, shall we?

I would dig for them, but I am off to hook me a few fish for dinner, so I bid you all a fond farewell.

Wish me luck, the Silver and King are running in the Puyallup river, I am gonna get me some!!

A pink Corky and some shiny stuff ought to do the trick.

They are royally PO'd and will strike at anything that gets their attention at this point. The fish don't eat on their way to spawn, but they are frustrated, so I will use it to my advantage.

Some Silver or King for the BBQ tonight sounds WONDERFUL!!

[Aric2000]

No Ditto, YOU are the one that doesn't want to go there, I have studied EXTENSIVELY ancient religions, at the place of their birth, Turkey, Greece, England, etc.

I know far MORE then you do on this subject, YOU do NOT want me to go there.

I put my 18 months in Turkey to VERY good use.

[Aric2000]

That's some fun stuff, I will have to pick it apart when I get back.

Off to fishing, see ya!!