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To: Diddle E. Squat
I did a very systematic study of each precinct in Philadelphia, looking a turnout versus registration, and found no pattern of any vote fraud. Some black precincts had very low turnout, and some matched high turnout white precincts. There was one precinct with a 101% turnout, which I assume was a typo, and one with about 98%. Almost all precincts had turnouts less than 90%, and most less than 60%, including most black precincts. So any vote fraud would have to arise from having lots of phony registered voters that show up at the polls. But Philly's turnout vis a vis its population is not out of line.

I suspect it is all an urban legend, and wishful Pubbie thinking.

117 posted on 08/22/2003 3:24:55 PM PDT by Torie
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To: Torie
Thanks for the quick reply, I had a feeling that you were the one who diligently looked into it. But does the single precinct with 98% turnout raise your eyebrows?(for some reason I didn't think there were any in Philly that got that high) Isn't 98% unheard of? So are the size of the precincts small enough that any attempts to ballot stuff in just 1 or 2 precincts would not provide a significant number of votes to the tally?
118 posted on 08/22/2003 3:36:37 PM PDT by Diddle E. Squat
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To: Torie
So any vote fraud would have to arise from having lots of phony registered voters that show up at the polls.

Did you ever wonder why inner city precincts even with voting machines don't get counted until the wee hours of the morning? Did you think it strange that the inner city Miami precincts only had Democratic poll workers? Even though the Florida law requires that no more than 60 percent of the poll workers be from the same party?

In Chicago, New York, Philly, Miami, Cleveland, Detroit, and Atlanta .. just to name a few, inner city precincts only have Democratic poll workers. It is against a law that is never enforced. The penalty for being a Republican poll worker is a massive beating by union thugs. It is a painful sight. Republican poll workers for the inner city are very hard to come by and never last the entire election day.

Democrats make a big deal about registering lots of people. Black Pastors are given "walking around" money to register all their congregation and 'hood and most do. They pay the people who register and keep the rest.

Each presiding judge for these precincts is given a list of the margin they need to win the precinct by if their candidate is down by x amount. Let us say the democrat is are down by 2000 votes and the Democrats need 10000 votes to have an uncontested win. Precinct a may need 50 votes more and precinct b may need 40. So the precinct workers vote the registered voters that have not voted.They use TV network reporting to disseminate the information. Gore lost Florida because the inner city Miami precincts believed that Gore had it won. When they have a race won they do not steal votes. There is no purpose and only risk to stealing for a race that is already won. When they lose by a margin greater than they can steal, they do not steal votes either. If they can't steal enough to win, why bother to steal at all is the logic.

Voting registered non voters by precinct workers brings the turn out up from the 40 to 45 range to the 60 or 70 range. But it takes a while to vote all those ballots. That is why the returns from the inner city precincts come in so late. It is done just enough to win close elections and avoid a recount if possible.

One other trick that can be used is to stack a up percentage of the ballots up and run a rod through the Democrat Candidates chad. If the person who used the ballot voted for the Democrat no harm is done, but if the person voted for a Republican or someone else, their ballot becomes a spoiled double marked ballot and will not be counted.

One misconception is that Democrats vote the dead. That is not true. They do keep them on the registration lists if at all possible so the turn out percentages can be made to look reasonable.

The key to stopping fraud is to insure that no more than 60 percent of a precincts poll workers can be from the same party. That is the law in most states but it is openly disobeyed.... as it was in Florida in 2000.

That is the way elections are stolen... They only steal close ones... and that is often enough to keep them in power.

One recent twist is to print out duplicates of the poll lists. With Republicans sniffing around, someday a pubbie might get the bright idea to have a hand writing expert or 3 check the signatures on lists voters must sign before voting. To counter that Democrats have begun getting the computerized signature lists of registered voters by precinct. It is a public record. Pollsters buy them all the time. Then Democrats print the lists voters must sign to vote. Next the preachers have the members of the congregation as well as others in the 'hood come in and sign them and punch a ballot as part of voter education before election day. Those pre signed lists are used on election day.

On election day those who show up to vote sign as usual.. unless they have pre-signed at the church. They keep track of the number of actual voters and count the total signatures when the polls close. They then vote the additional ballots of those that signed but did not show up to vote. Unless you can prove they used the fake list, there is not way to prove fraud. The down side is they must steal votes in every election. The upside is the signatures are valid and NOT FORGED. And how can it be illegal to train folks to vote exactly like it will occur at the polling place?

Most of this is just convenience for Democrats. If it was stopped they would have to get these people to the polls. Cost is a factor. The Democrats would have to pay these people twice.. once for registering an once again if they had to go to the polls to vote. On the up side they would not have to pay the precinct workers nearly as much. By the way the money to pay for this comes from "Voter Education" funds.

Most Voter Education funds come from union dues... but they get substantial donations from other sources as well.

In the 1940's votes were purchased at $2.00 and a double shot of whiskey each. They watered the whiskey. Back then 70,000 votes would be purchased in Ohio for nearly every general election.

In 1972 the Republican Candidate for Ohio Governor, Jim Rhodes, was just barely ahead (a thousand votes or 3)with inner City Cleveland still out. The Democrats typically carried Cleveland by nearly 50,000 votes. Rhodes was an early riser and liked to go to bed early. So about 1:OOAm with Cleveland still out, Rhodes conceded. Al Wallace had to go to Rhodes home in Upper Arlington at about 4 in the morning to wake Jim up. Jim was very surprised when Al told him he had won. Democrat Candidate Gilligan had ticked off the Democratic chairman of Cuyahoga County (Cleveland). The Democrats did not buy a single vote in Cleveland that year. Rhodes carried Cuyahoga county by a few votes in a VERY LIGHT TURN OUT for Cuyahoga County. Hmmmmmm.......... A Republican carrying Cuyahoga county is like the devil Carrying Heaven. It is not real believable.

The Democrats knew that 2000 was going to be very close. I think the media cost Gore the election. If they had declared the Florida for Bush instead of Gore, Gore would be president today.

One thing I have noticed in the Democratic party. Many of the elected officials are unaware of how their own elections are won. The Democrats in congress actually thought CFR would benefit them. The party at the grass roots is run by working class labor unions, but at the candidate level is is run by the elites. This often causes the democratic party to do things that are counter productive.

It is like California's main stream Republicans. They actually think the single issue abortion,and gun rights, Republicans will come out to vote for Arnie if Arnie is the only viable Repubican on the ballot. When there is no one on the ballot who suports their single issue, single issue voters do not vote. That is why they are called single issue voters. And with out the single issue voters, Davis has a shot at winning the recall election.

I think the recall will get tighter as election day nears. It is hard to cry he lied about the deficit when the media says their is no longer a deficit. And it is hard to make charges about the lights going out, when the lights went out in the east this year, but did not go out in Gray Davis's California. That will certainly occur to the majority Democrats and some of the independents.

I have thought that recalling Gray Davis would only allow the Democrats to escape the blame. Note Repubicans is not blaming Democrats. They are blaming Gray Davis.

Blaming Gray Davis for California's problems is only valuable to Republicans if Gray Davis beats the recall.

146 posted on 08/24/2003 10:57:37 AM PDT by Common Tator
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