[lugsoul]

"My bet is the facts don't back up the claim that the father beat the kids anymore than what is normal discipline in families."

You lose. The father admitted hitting two of his children in the fact, having his boys sit with bags over their heads Gitmo-style, and refusing to allow his teen daughter to see a GYN. The court found that he engaged in "excessive disciplinary measures" and entered an order with safeguards to protect the kids - from their father. But at least he wasn't gay, as far as we know.

You should try actually reading these cases sometimes.

[Robe]

Gee.... When I was about 10 I decided to try my dads Lucky Strikes... when he caught me, he made me smoke three more with a bucket over my head.....never smoked since.
Sometimes harsh punishment works and have lasting effects

[VRWC_minion]

You lose. The father admitted hitting two of his children in the fact, having his boys sit with bags over their heads Gitmo-style, and refusing to allow his teen daughter to see a GYN. The court found that he engaged in "excessive disciplinary measures" and entered an order with safeguards to protect the kids - from their father. But at least he wasn't gay, as far as we know.

Excessive displine isn't the same as abuse. Were both children female ?