Since when is right and wrong open to debate?

TownHall.com ^ | 8/20/03 | Armstrong Williams

[Rebelbase]

My previous posts were dealing with broken people and getting them into a church where they can begin to be healed..be they homosexuals, alcoholics, adulters, whores or harlots.

I wasn't talking about the Bishop. Sorry if you took what I was saying as dealing with the Bishop. That is a Church leadership issue.

[Rebelbase]

See last paragraph of #41. Sorry for the confusion.

[Woahhs]

My previous posts were dealing with broken people and getting them into a church where they can begin to be healed..be they homosexuals, alcoholics, adulters, whores or harlots. I wasn't talking about the Bishop. Sorry if you took what I was saying as dealing with the Bishop. That is a Church leadership issue.

Agreed.

But why do you feel a need to draw attention to the obvious? It very much looks like you are acknowleging the militant homosexual canard that Christians are intolerant. Didn't Christ say the world would hate you? Why would you give a salute to the banner under which they justify that hate?

[Rebelbase]

You have misunderstood my posts, which is due to my misinterpretation of the first post I replied to on this thread, so in the domino effect you are assinging something to me that does not exist.

Again, sorry for the confusion.

[Live free or die]

bump for later reading

[RinaseaofDs]

For the same reason any sinner cries out to God. Salvation doesn't mean you are perfect. It just means you are saved.

As a human being, I'm afflicted with sin. I hate it every time I sin, and I try and do better every day.

Paul said that "No one is worthy, not one." There is only one door to salvation, and that is acceptance of the sacrifice of Jesus to save us. We will never be worthy, even if we could live a sinless life unto death.

Whether you steal a pack of gum, or you murder and persecute Christians, sin is sin, and without salvation, you are going to hell.

Being gay is no different. It is one thing to have gay people in your congregation, and another to have them leading it. In being a priest, you are taking on an additional awesome responsibility. If you lead people away from God as a priest, that is a huge, huge abandonment of that responsibility. Being gay could do that pretty easily.

When you become saved, and you ask Christ into your life, you don't want to sin anymore. You get it finally, and you realize that God sent His only Son to be sacrificed by the same people He was trying to save.

When this realization hits you can be different for everyone, but eventually it does.

I am better than no one because I'm saved. Every time I sin it means that I know the gravity of the gift of salvation and what it means, and then I choose to intentionally spit in the face of God, and then the very next second, ask Him to provide for all that I need.

What is worse than that? Nothing I can think of. Not being gay or divorced. There really is nothing worse than understanding all of the cosmic implications of sin and salvation, and then choosing to sin anyway.

Here's the thing though, I keep on trying to be perfect even when I know it will never happen. That is the very best I can give God in return for a gift I can't pay for, and for which nothing is expected in return.

I'm not alone down here. I have the Holy Spirit, and that ain't nothin'. Don't even ask about how the Holy Spirit works in my life, but all I know is that God listens when I pray and intervenes unmistakeably in my life. Sometimes I don't even know what to pray for, because from my perspective I don't always know what to ask. So I leave it up to God, and the Holy Spirit, and things happen.

So. In my addled mind I believe that the issue with Gays becoming bishops is that leading a church and being a Christian are two different things. I think pedophiles and axe murderers have a place in my church, even in the same pew. I however don't believe that either of them have a place leading my church at this time.

Don't forget that Paul led God's people in his ministry pretty meaningfully, despite all of the sickness he was responsible for in his life.

I believe that the creed that Satan would like us to buy is, "We human beings are incapable of change." I think that as soon as we accept that, we lose. Amazing, though, how easy it is to accept something so innocuous.

[Woahhs]

Whether you steal a pack of gum, or you murder and persecute Christians, sin is sin, and without salvation, you are going to hell.

...If you lead people away from God as a priest, that is a huge, huge abandonment of that responsibility.

So which is it? You can't claim both.

So. In my addled mind I believe that the issue with Gays becoming bishops is that leading a church and being a Christian are two different things.

So are you saying you can be a gay practicing Christian, but not a gay practicing Bishop?

[RinaseaofDs]

No. I am saying you can't be a practicing gay and a practicing bishop. You can't say, "It's okay to be saved and still sin, and live at peace with yourself and with God." A bishop that has a gay significant other sends that message.

I have no issue with a gay bishop that says, "I'm celibate, and it is really hard, but it is the only way."

I'm very, very sure that's the way it is for more than a few Catholic priests. I think that's why the whole marriage issue is so sensitive for the Catholic Church. They require priests be celibate - all of them. I'm not sure if they require them to be heterosexual, because the point is moot.

[JustPiper]

Bump for Daytimers!

[Salvation]

Right and wrong.

Right will win!

[T Wayne]

"I am come to give you a NEW law: love your neighbor as yourself!"

and to the woman being stoned for an infraction of the law, "Neither do I condem thee, go and sin no more."

[TheCrusader]

"In this day and age, any preacher who explains to his congregation that homosexuality is a sin will have hell to pay from the gay Mafia and the liberal media."

Nah, they will get some flack from the gay agenda. But the hell they may pay in eternity is if they fail to explain this truth to the congregation.