Carelessness and Casualness in worship

The Middletown Bible Church ^ | 08/19/03 | various authors

[tutstar]

Felt like a 'hot topic' today, huh? Must agree though!

[Eagle Eye]

Yet, I am afraid that less than 30% would wear a shirt and tie to stand before a Holy God in worship on Sunday.

I don't like to go to church dressed less nicely than how a dress at work. Therefore, jacket and tie is the norm for me, even though most my age wear dockers and polos.

[Theo]

Ah -- quick post before you respond to mine. I **DO** love a lot of his songs. For goodness sake, we *sing* one of his songs regularly in church, where I'm the synth player on the worship team. It's just that it's good to use discernment about each song, and not just approve sweepingly of songs because the singer has a wonderful track record.

Friends? :-)

[fightinJAG]

ccmay wrote:

A lot of this sounds like unsavory pridefulness on the part of the pastor.

In my experience, the more persnickety a minister is about clothing, the more likely he is to be a pompous blowhard who is in love with the sound of his own voice.

I agree.

Elsewhere on this thread I have been recommending an interesting read, Frank Viola's book, "Pagan Christianity: The Origins of Our Modern Church Practices."

Since it keeps coming up, let me quote a bit from Viola's chapter titled "Sunday Morning Costumes." Here we go:

Every Sunday morning, over 300 million Protestants put on their best clothes to attend Sunday morning church. [footnote noting that there are denominations, such as the Vineyard, that espouse casual dress] But no one seems to question why. Thousands of pastors wear special garb that separates them from their congregation. And no on seems to care. . . .

The practice of "dressing up" for church is a relatively recent phenomenon. It began in the late- 18th century with the Industrial Revolution, and it became widespread in the mid- 19ths century. Before this time, "dressing up" for social events was only known among the very wealthy. . . . Common folks only had two sets of clothes: Work clothes for laboring in the field and less tattered clothing for going into town.

. . . In medival Europe up until the 18th century, dress was a clear marker of one's social class. . . . This changed with the invention of mass textile manufacturing and the development of urban society. . . . The middle class was born . . . For the first time, the middle class could distinguish themselves from the peasnats. To demonstrate their newly improved status, they could now "dress up" for social events just like the well-to-do."

Some Christian groups in the late 18th and 19th centuries resisted this cultural trend. John Wesley wrote against wearing expensive or flashy clothing. The early Methodists resisted the idea of "dressing up" for church so much that they turned away anyone who wore expensive clothing to their meetings. The early Baptists also condemned fine clothing, teaching that it separated the rich from the poor.

Nevertheless, despite these protests, mainstream Christians began wearing fine clothes whenever they could. . . . As the Victorian enculturation of the middle class grew, fancier church buildings began to draw more influential people in society. . . .

This all came to a head when in 1843, Horace Bushnell, an influential Congregational minister in Connecticut, published an essay called Taste and Fashion. In it, Bushnell argued that sophistication and refinement were attributes of God and that Christians should emulate them. Thus was born the idea of "dressing up" for church to honor God! . . .

Following hard on the heels of Bushnell, a North Carolina Presbyterian named William Henry Foote wrote in 1846 that "a church-going people are a dress loving people."This statement simply expressed the formal dress ritual that mainstream Christians had adopted when going to church. The trend was so powerful that by the 1850s, even the "formal-dress-resistant" Methodists got absorbed by it. And they too began wearing their "Sunday best" for church.

Accordingly . . . dressing up for church is the result of the Christian being influenced by his surrounding culture. . . . [N]ow you know the story behind this mindless custom.

It is purely the result of 19th-century middle class efforts to become like their wealthy aristocrat contemporaries, showing off their improved status by their clothing. (This effort also was helped along by Victorian notions of respectability.) Put another way, wearing your "Sunday best" is simply a product of secular culture. It has nothing to do with the Bible, Jesus Christ, or the Holy Spirit!

///(pp. 187-190) end excerpt///

For those interested persons, Viola goes on to ask and answer the question, "So what is wrong with it?"

Check it out if you're inclined.

[HiTech RedNeck]

Palm Pilot! :-)

Jesus summed all the "Law and Prophets" up into the first two commandments. "Love the Lord with all your Soul, Heart, and Mind [Strength]," and "Love your Neighbor as Yourself." So there are really only two tests, and #2 is, technically speaking, folded into #1 anyhow. (If you love God then it follows you will love the creatures He made in His image.)

These are good topics to study the Bible on, but 67 tests as a ready guide? Forget it.

[maxwell]

Hey as I said for me it comes from my upbringing. I attend a church that tried it a few times with the youth band during service. How do I say it? It didn't 'feel' right. The kids were worshipping I guess in their own way but when you've got a congregation with the majority of the people over 50 and most of the rest that attend the church because it's an 'old' Southern Baptist country church, it didn't come across as worship. It came across as noise in a place that was meant to be quiet and honored

Yep. I'm with ya, dude.

[fightinJAG]

Ping to #144!

[LTCJ]

I don't like to go to church dressed less nicely than how a dress at work. Therefore, jacket and tie is the norm for me

I can respect that.

I, too, dress no differently for work or church services - I dare say most who are so adamant about the necessity of dressing "up" their outward appearance for Sunday would be better served on reflecting about the likelyhood of dressing down their spirituality for the remainder of the week.

[SpinnerWebb]

I'm gonna post this one without reading the other posts.... so forgive me if I repeat someone's previous comments: BAH!

Go to church. Worship God from the heart. David stripped down to his underwear in front of his entire nation in the most sincere worship the people of God had ever seen. He had critics, too. Dress your heart in it's Sunday Best. Leave the stuffy clothes at home, and come with your best praise, your most humble and contrite heart.

[fightinJAG]

my bad typos

[fightinJAG]

I will bring together interested persons. Ihave "The Purpose-Driven Church" on my reading list.

[fightinJAG]

Most believers haven't the faintest idea about their historical roots, and thus they cannot carry any pagan connotations to those people.

This was my first reaction upon being introduced to the "rest of the story."

As time has gone on, however, I don't see these things as as harmless as I did at first.

Viola sets out the origin of the practice, then asks "So what is wrong with it?"

I personally haven't reached conclusions on everything, but it's thought-provoking and, I think, not just an idle intellectual curiousity to sort out how Christianity became churchianity and what that means for the cause of Christ in today's world.

[NCLaw441]

I think the conclusion stated in the initial post is certainly valid, that is, we should give God our best. From there, it is a question of how to do it. Certainly dressing in a manner that suggests one doesn't care about worship does not suggest that we are giving God our best. This, however, is a matter of personal taste, styles of the day (remember leisure suits in the 70s?), one's finances, and the community in which one lives. Of course, the proof is in the worship. Is it real? Does it exalt God? Is it God-centered? These, it seems to me, are the important things. I personally prefer a more formal worship experience, but for the past two years our family has attended the earlier, more casual service offered by our church. I enjoy it, and those who attend, including the musicians, are, I believe, giving God their best. The biggest mistake to be made in this whole issue, I believe, is to suggest that nice clothes and "proper" music are proof of true worship. Ultimately, that proof is to be made before God, and not others. At the same time, we ought not intentionally detract from the worship experience of others by denigrating the service or mocking what others choose to wear. We should not cause our brothers to stumble, but we should do all we can to lift each other up. "Love the Lord God with all your heart, all your soul, all your mind and all your strength, and love your neighbor as yourself." Do this, and the rest will fall into place.

[69ConvertibleFirebird]

Whatever Happened to our Sunday Best?

It went down the fudge packing road with the others...

Worship (in the majority, non-believing, churches such as the church that now has a proud, homosexual, unrepentant sinning, Bishop) is now about self rather than about God.

[fightinJAG]

I always felt the opposite: I found dressing up for work a total chore and a total drudge. I did not want to feel that way about being with my brothers and sisters in Christ.

[fightinJAG]

Amen!

And may I ping you to post #144?

[RaceBannon]

And if you can call yourself someone who knew God as Davd did, you would understand David's act of complete contrition, humbling himself before God and the Congregation was an act of humility, not wearing blue jeans and T-shirts.

I am amazed at howmany people will defend the cheapening of worship, the lack of spiritual music, and the casualness and lack of a need to dress to respect the place of Worship!

Yet, I wouldbet many of you defend school uniforms, just to make the kids stand in line rightly...

[stainlessbanner]

bttt

[RaceBannon]

I would expect those bikers to recognize they are suppposed to be new creatures in Christ after they got saved, they are supposed to shave to show it, they are supposed to bathe to show it, they are supposed to dress appropiately to show it.

If the Pastor is not tellling them this, then how are they being taught to behave? If people who are supposed to be saved still run around in the same old style of clothing they demanded they wear to identify with a drug and alchohol and sex culture, how in the world are peopls supposed to see they have changed what is in their heart?

If there isno label onthe can through changed behaviour and dress and appearance, how are people supposed to believe the change was genuine?

This neo-evangelicalism that so many espouse here is why the world is NOT listening to Christians, we are offering them nothing different than what that already have. We are NOT showing a new life in Christ, we are NOT showing we have changed from death unto life.


..unless you still run around in your pro-LED ZEPPLIN T-shirt yourself, this should be obvious.

[j_k_l]

The church I attend, the members dress in their work clothes. They are musicians so their work clothes or "Sunday Best" means making sure the Mohawk is standing tall and the jewelry in ones face is polished.

I don’t dress like they do. I make an effort to wear what anyone who might walk off the street into our church might be wearing. I want them to feel welcome and know we are glad they are there.

Let me add that even with 50 tattoos, you can still love and serve God.