Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

United States v Roy Moore: The Most Important States' Rights Case in Decades
PatriotPetitions.US/Federalist.com ^ | 8-15-03

Posted on 08/15/2003 4:06:45 PM PDT by cpforlife.org

click here to read article


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160161 next last
To: bereanway
To say that D. James Kennedy and Paul and Jan Crouch are in no way affiliated is a real understatement. There is so much distance between them theologically that they're not even on the same planet. To try and tie them together is more than a reach.

See post #71.

You needn't bother commenting - nobody else who challenged that assertion has after I pointed out the proof of the connection (as well as when I've pointed out that Kennedy is a promulgator of the theory of "the Christian Zodiac").

121 posted on 08/16/2003 4:50:12 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine ("what if the hokey pokey is really what its all about?" - Jean Paul Sartre)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 60 | View Replies]

To: detsaoT
See post #71 - I linked the thread with a link to Fox News. It came from Moore's own mouth.
122 posted on 08/16/2003 4:54:53 AM PDT by Chancellor Palpatine ("what if the hokey pokey is really what its all about?" - Jean Paul Sartre)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 104 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org
bump
123 posted on 08/16/2003 4:56:30 AM PDT by Badray (Molon Labe!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org
Yes, the district court and the court of appeals both addressed this issue. Unfortunately for Chief Judge Moore, they ruled against him in both instances.
124 posted on 08/16/2003 5:00:43 AM PDT by Catspaw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org
You very adroitly fail to mention that Mohammed is also on the frieze at the Supreme Court.
125 posted on 08/16/2003 7:13:37 AM PDT by lugsoul ($125,000,000.00! Who got it, and for what?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org
"it is about National Salvation, and a national code of conduct. "

No, that's not America either -- it sounds more like the brochure for the once Taliban infested Afghanistan. It's not happening in the U.S. in 2003. We're too varied, too different to follow a "national code of conduct." What about the people who don't comply?

I love the monuments you pointed out in your post, but what Judge Moore has done brings shame to our legal tradition. I see him as an opportunist for money.

126 posted on 08/16/2003 7:17:31 AM PDT by Lurkd Long Enough (Proudly lurking since 1999)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 113 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org
BIBLES and GUNPOWDER: The foundations of the American Revolution
excerpts from Van Jenerette's comments at the FREE REPUBLIC Annual Conference 2001 at Seabrook Island S.C. on "The US Constitution and the Rule of Law." and his treatise on "Bibles & Gunpowder: The foundations of the American Revolution."
the
CONSTITUTION of THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA - the most dangerous document ever written
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why did it take until July 1776 for a nation based on the principle of God given Individual Rights; Individual self Government by the people and governors who could only govern with the consent of the governed to happen?
The answer is actually simple - there are three basic reasons:

#1) The printing of the CHRISTIAN BIBLE - the most dangerous book ever printed
#
2) The 'invention' of GUNPOWDER - the great equalizer between peasants and tyrants
#
3) A very big OCEAN - between the OLD WORLD and the NEW WORLD

...theses three things directly set the field of human endeavor in motion for the construction of:
the Declaration of Independence and the
CONSTITUTION of THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA - the most dangerous documents ever written by man.


GOVERNMENT BY THE PEOPLE - The Constitution provides the legitimate foundations of this country as a nation that is of the people and by the people.
 
We, the people, are the caretakers of the Constitution of the United States. Our charge is to pass on to future generations of Americans the rights and privileges that have been passed to us for over two centuries. It is a trust.
The notion that Supreme Court Justices, government officials or elite scholars are the only Americans who may offer worthwhile opinions on constitutional issues is far too narrow. At most, their years of study and review offer a snapshot view when put into perspective along side the centuries the document has existed.
The Constitution, and interpretations of it, belong as much to the proprietor of a small business, the homemaker, the college freshman, the taxi driver, and the newly naturalized immigrant as it does to any American.
We must guard this document and the Bill of Rights with vigilance.
------------------------------------------------------------------------

REF: Myths that this nation was founded with a design to separate government from religion and the people from their arms.

I wish that most of you could have seen what I have seen in my life about this world we live in - we all might gain an appreciation or how fragile this Republic by the People really is. And, we all might have a better appreciation for the entire Bill of Rights and REAL AMERICAN HISTORY vs. the POLITICALLY CORRECT AMERICAN HISTORY that is reflected in today's media, public schools and colleges across this nation.

Both my wife and I have served in our military in combat zones in Korea and Desert Storm and we do not take this country with its freedoms and its dangers lightly. Today, she is a Congressional aide and professor of History and I teach college Political Science and Sociology. There is no greater cause for either of us than to hand down to our 4 children the right of individual self government.

The notion that the founding fathers, in designing the Bill of Rights were correct in the importance of freedom of the press and freedom from an official 'state church' yet incorrect when it came to the necessity of armed citizens in the space of two paragraphs reflects ignorance or duplicity at best. Our constitution should not be trifled with.

Our forefathers knew well that kings made state churches to perpetuate their power and that tyrants understood guns are designed to kill. This is still very true. The founders never mentioned 'a wall of separation between church and state' until Jefferson was quoted out of context. Because the founding fathers knew that the experiment they were proposing was contingent upon a moral majority of Christian citizens armed with Bibles and Gunpowder!

They didn't mention hunters, or sportsmen, or home protection - they were well aware that guns were intended to equalize people - the wealthy or the poor - the powerful and the weak. Pity the person who actually believes that the powerful would negotiate the domain of governments, commerce, individual rights and liberties out of some sense of benevolence or righteousness.

They didn't mention Allah or Buddha or Darwin, or Krishna - they were well aware that it was the Christian God who intended to equalize the people - the wealthy or the poor - the powerful and the weak.

Even a foolish person who examines the line of time for 'civilization' will be presented with the cold clear fact that participatory power sharing between the rulers and the ruled did not occur until two events and one singular condition existed: Bibles - Gunpowder - and a New World separated from the old by geographical circumstance.

This concept of individual self government where the people are 'endowed by their Creator with inherent and inalienable rights' equal and unquestionable did not spring forth when it did without reason.

To assume that the people in all of the ages of this earth who lived prior to 1776 submitted to royalty or tyrants because of satisfaction or cowardice is intellectually naive. This new nation came into being because the means coincided with the concepts of the Enlightenment.

Even the most powerful king, chief, or dictator understands the usefulness of negotiation when confronted with an armed Christian citizenry that makes two things clear; #1) citizens are willing to kill to secure certain rights and #2) that they, the citizens, are willing to die in the process.

If this nation is to remain free for future generations, the rights of the people to arm themselves and to freely exercise their religion both privately and publicly, is much more than merely a right to be exercised. It is a necessity to freedom that the means of securing all the rights of individual man and self government be obvious and openly apparent to all who govern.

However, founder John Adams added a warning to all of us today with regards to our ability to suststain our independence: ..."Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other." October 11, 1798

I would suggest that anyone opposed to the BIBLE or GUNS in the hands of our citizens, review their early American history. If they do, they'll find that their rights to speak their minds freely owes much to the Christian Bible and the right to bear arms and the threat of death to tyrants provided only by a 'culture of guns' and the 'integration of Biblical scripture' in the hands of ordinary people who are free.

If a person truly loves liberty and freedom, the only thing that should be feared more than ordinary citizens who have the freedom to arm themselves is an armed government who is the only one who possesses arms, and a government who uses God to arm only themselves.


- Van Jenerette - www.jenerette.com



more thoughts...

"No free man shall ever be de-barred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain their right to keep and bear arms is as a last resort to protect themselves against tyranny in government."

"Independence can be trusted nowhere but with the people in mass."

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?"

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive."
- Thomas Jefferson



"Firearms stand next to the constitution itself. They are the American people's liberty teeth and keystone under independence."
- George Washington



"The said constitution shall never be construed to authorize congress to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
- Samuel Adams



"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world."
- Daniel Webster



"We have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion...Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other."
- John Adams



"Religion and virtue are the only foundations, not only of all free government, but of social felicity under all governments and in all the combinations of human society."
- John Adams


"The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.
- John Quincy Adams

"From the day of the Declaration...they (the American people) were bound by the laws of God, which they all, and by the laws of The Gospel, which they nearly all, acknowledge as the rules of their conduct."
- John Quincy Adams


"By our form of government, the Christian religion is the established religion; and all sects and denominations of Christians are placed upon the same equal footing, and are equally entitled to protection in their religious liberty."
- Samuel Chase

"I have lived, Sir, a long time, and the longer I live, the more convincing proofs I see of this truth--that God Governs the affairs of men. And if a sparrow cannot fall to the ground without His notice, is it probable that an empire can rise without His aid? "
- Benjamin Franklin

"It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here."
- Patrick Henry
(...give me liberty or give me death!)

"The Bible is worth all other books which have ever been printed."
- Patrick Henry
(...give me liberty or give me death!)

"Bad men cannot make good citizens. A vitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience are incompatible with freedom."
- Patrick Henry
(...give me liberty or give me death!)

"It is when people forget God that tyrants forge their chains."
- Patrick Henry
(...give me liberty or give me death!)

"The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun."
- Patrick Henry
(...give me liberty or give me death!)


finally, Thomas Jefferson also wrote:

"A more beautiful or precious morsel of ethics I have never seen; it is a document in proof that I am a real Christian; that is to say, a disciple of the doctrines of Jesus."

"I have always said, I always will say, that the studious perusal of the sacred volume will make better citizens, better fathers, and better husbands."

Jefferson declared that religion is: "Deemed in other countries incompatible with good government and yet proved by our experience to be its best support."




POST SCRIPT:

Clearly, it must be understood that the concept of 'individual-self-government' was a unique one in 1776.

It's basis, just as with any other form of human 'government,' had to have a foundation of legitimacy.

In our American case, the legitimacy was founded on the Judeo-Christian idea of 'free will,' specific moral boundaries, and individual 'self-determinism' with the 'citizen' being the architect of their own destiny.

Now, had the founders - instead of being products of 'Western Civilization' and Judeo Christian civilization - been, say, Hindu or Muslim, or Atheists; could the concept of each individual having specific license to rights; granted by natures GOD, not other men; and the idea of individual construction rather than predestination - have taken root and grown as it has here in America?

Bottom line: Even if you don't believe in God or believe in Christianity, you are better off living within a system where the majority of people - and the form of government - believes or even pretends the Judeo-Christian God exists and is the origin of man's rights.


The American Revolution must continue today as a Resistance to those who advise and attempt to limit GUNPOWDER and BIBLES in todays American society or the Constitution of our forefathers will become just a piece of paper. Freedom will DIE if they succeed.

Our Republic...If we can keep it...
Van & Katherine Jenerette

127 posted on 08/16/2003 10:09:45 AM PDT by Van Jenerette (Our Republic...if we can keep it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org
"The display no more violates the Constitution "than the fact that my money" says, 'In God We Trust on it,' Prince added."

More than a little irony here -- In fact let those ACLU-types who have a gun to Moore's head sue:

The U.S. Treasury; Congress, for it's evocation of "God," "Creator," "Almighty," and for ANY inference of the Deity thereof writtem with, by, on behalf of government ink.

Add to the 'hit-list': The Bill of Rights, Constitution itself, or the Declaration of Independence; And finally, for ANY evocation of the phrase "God Bless" by ANY Presidents or politicians -- of which can be construed as advocation of "religion" -- let the same ACLU/"Separation of Church and State" loons selectively try and demolish the 1st Amendment altoghter.

128 posted on 08/16/2003 11:32:41 AM PDT by F16Fighter (If it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 116 | View Replies]

To: Van Jenerette
Thank you, sir. God bless you and your family.
129 posted on 08/16/2003 1:22:01 PM PDT by cpforlife.org (Abortion is the Choice of Satan, a LIAR and MURDERER from the beginning.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 127 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org
C-span did not cover this event as they said but they would have covered an anti-American event.
130 posted on 08/16/2003 1:39:21 PM PDT by INSENSITIVE GUY
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org
Thank you. This is a very big battle we are part of; so impossible sometimes. I try to use my classroom to put out the truth and let the students decide...

Last semeseter I gave an assignment to my classes to research the House bill on late term abortion and to descibe the procedue in a paper explaining step by step the 'free choice' being exercised by the mother and the doctor both legally and physically.

It was a sobering class...99% of the students had no idea that it was legal to do this. All I wanted them to do was to come face to face with the truth. They did.

Keep up your good fight. God bless!

Van & Katherine and children

131 posted on 08/16/2003 1:56:54 PM PDT by Van Jenerette (Our Republic...if we can keep it!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 129 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org
I saw Moore speak today and he was great! Alan Keyes was also very good. There were probably 4 thousand people at the rally today and I think the politicians will notice.
132 posted on 08/16/2003 3:26:43 PM PDT by votelife (Free Bill Pryor)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Chancellor Palpatine
I guess if you don't have facts, FUD and character assassination will do just as well, huh? What part of establish don't YOU understand? The first amendment was a restriction ON THE POWER OF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT, NOT upon the states themselves! Stop spreading lies.
133 posted on 08/16/2003 3:31:27 PM PDT by =Intervention= (Moderate pubs and the liberals -- you know they love to get along....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: AnalogReigns
I simply do not believe that 125 MILLION dollars has been spent on this by Roy Moore or consultants. What is your source on that?

Palpatine is probably just repeating the bogus information that Fox News reported last week. The number was so ridiculously high that the story was proven wrong almost as soon as it came out. Guess is ain't so obvious to some.

134 posted on 08/16/2003 3:32:13 PM PDT by Sandy
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 57 | View Replies]

To: cake_crumb
Palpatine gets his butt handed to him again...
135 posted on 08/16/2003 3:39:01 PM PDT by =Intervention= (Moderate pubs and the liberals -- you know they love to get along....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: cpforlife.org

Ten Commandments Defense Act of 2003

(1) The Declaration of Independence declares that governments are instituted to secure certain unalienable rights, including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, with which all human beings are endowed by their Creator and to which they are entitled by the laws of nature and of nature's God.

(2) The organic laws of the United States Code and the constitutions of every State, using various expressions, recognize God as the source of the blessings of liberty.

(3) The First Amendment to the Constitution of the United States secures rights against laws respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof made by the United States Government.

(4) The rights secured under the first amendment have been interpreted by courts of the United States Government to be included among the provisions of the fourteenth amendment.

(5) The tenth amendment reserves to the States respectively the powers not delegated to the United States Government nor prohibited to the States.

(6) Disputes and doubts have arisen with respect to public displays of the Ten Commandments and to other public expression of religious faith.

(7) Section 5 of the fourteenth amendment grants the Congress power to enforce the provisions of the said amendment.

(8) Article I, section 8, grants the Congress power to constitute tribunals inferior to the Supreme Court, and article III, section 1, grants the Congress power to ordain and establish courts in which the judicial power of the United States Government shall be vested.

SEC. 3. RELIGIOUS LIBERTY RIGHTS DECLARED.

(a) DISPLAY OF TEN COMMANDMENTS- The power to display the Ten Commandments on or within property owned or administered by the several States or political subdivisions thereof is hereby declared to be among the powers reserved to the States respectively.

(b) EXPRESSION OF RELIGIOUS FAITH- The expression of religious faith by individual persons on or within property owned or administered by the several States or political subdivisions thereof is hereby--

(1) declared to be among the rights secured against laws respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise of religion made or enforced by the United States Government or by any department or executive or judicial officer thereof; and

(2) declared to be among the liberties of which no State shall deprive any person without due process of law made in pursuance of powers reserved to the States respectively.

(c) EXERCISE OF JUDICIAL POWER- The courts constituted, ordained, and established by the Congress shall exercise the judicial power in a manner consistent with the foregoing declarations.


Religious Freedom Restoration Act

Congress finds the following:

(1) The freedom to practice religion and to express religious thought is acknowledged to be one of the fundamental and unalienable rights belonging to all individuals.

(2) The Framers of the Constitution deliberately withheld, in the main body of that document, any authority for the Federal Government to meddle with the religious affairs or with the free speech of the people. Then, as further and more specific protection for the people, they added the first amendment, which includes the `establishment clause' and the `freedom of speech clause' which are as follows: `Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech . . .'. It is of utmost importance to note that the first amendment is not a grant of authority to the Federal Government. To the contrary, it is a specific restriction upon the exercise of power by the Federal Government.

(3) For over 150 years, the Court held to this historically correct position in interpreting the first amendment. During this period, scant mention was made to `The Separation of Church and State'.

(4) Then, beginning in 1947, and accelerating through the 60's, the Court abruptly reversed its position. This was done with no change in the law, either by statute or by amendment to the Constitution. The Court invented the distorted meaning of the first amendment utilizing the separation of `church and state' in 1947 in Everson v. Board of Education when it announced: The First Amendment has erected a wall between church and state. That wall must be kept high and impregnable. We could not approve the slightest breach. (Everson v. Board of Education; 330 U.S. 1, 18 [1947]). Over the past five decades, rulings of the United States Supreme Court have served to infringe upon the rights of Americans to enjoy freedom of speech relating to religious matters. Such infringements include the outlawing of prayer in schools and of the display of the Ten Commandments in public places. These rulings have not reflected a neutrality toward religious denominations but a hostility toward religious thought. They have served to undermine the foundation of not only our moral code but our system of law and justice.

(5) In making this abrupt change, the Court ignored all historical precedent established previously by the Court, the wording of the First Amendment, and the intent of its framers. The rulings are legally irrational and without foundation. Although the Court presumed to rely upon the First Amendment for its authority for these rulings, a review of that Amendment reveals that said rulings could not possibly have been based upon its original intent. Consequently, it is incumbent upon this Congress to review not only the rulings of the Court which are in question but the wording and history of the First Amendment to determine the intent of its framers. This abrupt change is found in the following court cases:

(A) `A verbal prayer offered in a school is unconstitutional, even if that prayer is both voluntary and denominationally neutral.' (Engel v. Vitale, 1962, Abington v. Schempp, 1963, Commissioner of Education v. School Committee of Leyden, 1971.)

(B) `Freedoms of speech and press are guaranteed to students and teachers unless the topic is religious, at which time such speech becomes unconstitutional.' (Stein v. Oshinsky, 1965, Collins v. Chandler Unified School District, 1981, Bishop v. Aronov, 1991, Duran v. Nitsche, 1991.)

(C) `It is unconstitutional for students to see the Ten Commandments since they might read, meditate upon, respect, or obey them.' (Stone v. Graham, 1980, Ring v. Grand Forks Public School District, 1980, Lanner v. Wimmer, 1981.)

(D) `If a student prays over his lunch, it is unconstitutional for him to pray aloud.' (Reed v. Van Hoven, 1965.)

(E) `The Ten Commandments , despite the fact that they are the basis of civil law and are depicted in engraved stone in the United States Supreme Court, may not be displayed at a public courthouse.' (Harvey v. Cobb County, 1993.)

(F) `When a student addresses an assembly of his peers, he effectively becomes a government representative; it is therefore unconstitutional for that student to engage in prayer.' (Harris v. Joint School District, 1994.)

(G) By interpreting the establishment clause to preclude prayer and other religious speech in any public place, the Supreme Court necessarily violates the free speech clause of the very same first amendment.

These rulings of the Court constitute de facto legislation or Constitution-amending. This is a serious violation of the doctrine of separation of powers, as all legislative authority bestowed by the people through the Constitution is bestowed upon the Congress and the Congress alone.

(6) A fundamental maxim of law is, whenever the intent of a statute or a constitution is in question, to refer to the words of its framers to determine their intent and use this intent as the true intent of the law.

(7) The intent of the First Amendment was and is clear on these two points: The Federal Government was prohibited from enacting any laws which would favor one religious denomination over another and the Federal Government has no power to forbid or prohibit any mention of religion, the Ten Commandments or reference to God in civic dialog.

(8) In its rulings to prohibit Americans from saying prayers in school or from displaying the Ten Commandments in public places, the Court has relied heavily upon the metaphor, `Separation of Church and State'. Note that this phrase is nowhere to be found in the First Amendment or any other place in the Constitution.

(9) The metaphor, `Separation of Church and State', was extracted, out of context, from a letter from Thomas Jefferson to the Danbury Baptists in reply to a letter from them expressing concern that the Federal Government might intrude in religious matters by favoring one denomination over another. Jefferson's reply was that the First Amendment would preclude such intrusion.

(10) The Court, in its use of Separation of Church and State, has given to this phrase a meaning never intended by its author; it took it out of context and inverted its meaning and intent. The complete text of Jefferson's letter is found in Jefferson, Writings, Vol. XVI, pp. 281-282, to the Danbury Baptist Association on January 1, 1802.

(11) Justice William Rehnquist made an extensive study of the history of the First Amendment. In his dissent in Wallace v. Jaffree (472 U.S. 38, 48, n. 30 [1984],) he stated: `There is simply no historical foundation for the proposition that the Framers intended to build the `wall of separation' that was constitutionalized in Everson. . . . But the greatest injury of the `wall' notion is its mischievous diversion of judges from the actual intentions of the drafters of the Bill of Rights. . . . [N]o amount of repetition of historical errors in judicial opinions can make the errors true. The `wall of separation between church and state' is a metaphor based on bad history. . . . It should be frankly and explicitly abandoned. . . . Our perception has been clouded not by the Constitution but by the mists of an unnecessary metaphor. It would come as much of a shock to those who drafted the Bill of Rights, as it will to a large number of thoughtful Americans today, to learn that the Constitution, as construed by the majority, prohibits the Alabama Legislature from endorsing prayer. George Washington himself, at the request of the very Congress which passed the Bill of Rights, proclaimed a day of public thanksgiving and prayer, to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many and signal favors of Almighty God. History must judge whether it was the Father of his Country in 1789, or a majority of the Court today, which has strayed from the meaning of the Establishment Clause.'

(12) As Justice Rehnquist states, the greatest injury of the `wall' notion is its `mischievous diversion of judges from the actual intentions of the drafters of the Bill of Rights. . . .' It is necessary to review not only Jefferson's intent in his use of this `wall', but his involvement or noninvolvement in the drafting of the First Amendment, and the intent of the framers of the First Amendment.

(13) Jefferson was neither the author of nor a coauthor of the First Amendment. He cannot be considered as a source of legal authority on this subject. The Court, if it had wished to rely upon Jefferson to determine the true and original intent of the First Amendment, could have served themselves and the American people well by referring to Jefferson's admonition to Judge William Johnson regarding the determination of the original intent of a statute or a constitution: `On every question of construction, carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.' (Thomas Jefferson, Memoir, Correspondence, and Miscellanies, From the Papers of Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Randolph, editor [Boston: Gray and Bowen, 1830, Vol. IV., p. 373,] to Judge William Johnson on June 12, 1823).

(14) The principal authors of the First Amendment, the record reveals, were Fisher Ames and Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, not Thomas Jefferson. Others who participated were John Vining of Delaware, Daniel Carroll and Charles Carroll of Maryland, Benjamin Huntington, Roger Sherman and Oliver Ellsworth of Connecticut, William Paterson of New Jersey, and James Madison and George Mason of Virginia. Thomas Jefferson is not found in the record as having participated. (The Debates and Proceedings in the Congress of the United States [Washington, D.C.; Gales and Seaton, 1834], Vol. I, pp. 440-948, June 8-September 24, 1789.)

(15) George Mason, a member of the Constitutional Convention and recognized as `The Father of the Bill of Rights', submitted this proposal for the wording of the First Amendment: `All men have an equal, natural and unalienable right to the free exercise of religion, according to the dictates of conscience; and that no particular sect or society of Christians ought to be favored or established by law in preference to others.' (Kate Mason Rowland, The Life of George Mason [New York: G.P. Putnam's Sons, 1892,] Vol I, p. 244.)

(16) The Father of the Constitution, James Madison, submitted the following wording for the First Amendment: `The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established.' (The Debates and Proceedings in the Congress of the United States [Washington, D.C.; Gales and Season, 1834,] Vol. I, p. 451, James Madison, June 8, 1789.)

(17) The true intent of the First Amendment is reflected by the proposals submitted by Fisher Ames, George Mason and James Madison and the wording finally adopted.

(18) Justice Joseph Story, considered the Father of American Jurisprudence, stated in his Commentaries on the Constitution: `The real object of the [First A]mendment was not to countenance, much less to advance Mohometanism [sp], or Judaism, or infidelity by prostrating Christianity; but to exclude all rivalry among Christian sects and to prevent any national ecclesiastical establishment which should give to a hierarchy [a denominational council] the exclusive patronage of the national government. (Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States [Boston; Hilliard, Gray and Company, 1833], p. 728, par. 1871.)

(19) Proof that the intent of the framers of the First Amendment did not intend for the Federal Government to restrict the exercise of free speech in religious matters in civic dialog is found in various statements by George Washington, who was President when the Congress adopted the First Amendment. The following is found in his `Farewell Address': ` . . . of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness.' (George Washington, Address of George Washington, President of the United States. . . . Preparatory to his Declination [Baltimore: George and Henry S. Keatinge, 1796], pp. 22-23.

(20) James Wilson was a very active member of the Convention and was later appointed by President George Washington as an original Justice on the United States Supreme Court where he coauthored America's first legal text on the Constitution. Wilson never mentioned a `separation of church and state'. To the contrary, he declared the correlation between religion and civil laws: Far from being rivals or enemies, religion and law are twin sisters, friends, and mutual assistants. (James Wilson, The Works of James Wilson, Bird Wilson, editor. Philadelphia; Bronson and Chauncey, 1804. Vol. I, pp. 104-106.)

(21) It was Fisher Ames of Massachusetts who provided, on the 20th of August, 1789, the final wording for the First Amendment as passed by the House of Representatives. Fisher Ames, who should be considered the foremost authority on the intent of the First Amendment, never spoke of a separation of church and state. (Fisher Ames, Works of Fisher Ames, Boston; T.B. Wait & Co. 1809, p. 134, 135.)

(22) Because the Court does not seem to be disposed to correct this egregious error, it is incumbent upon the Congress of the United States to perform its duty to support and defend the Constitution of the United States, by the use of its authority to apply checks and balances to other branches of the government, when usurpations and the exercise of excesses of power are evident. The Congress must, then, take the appropriate steps to correct egregious problem.

SEC. 3. REMOVAL OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM-RELATED CASES FROM FEDERAL DISTRICT COURT JURISDICTION.

(a) IN GENERAL- Chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

`Sec. 1369. Exclusion of jurisdiction over religious freedom-related cases

`(a) IN GENERAL- The district courts of the United States, the District Court of Guam, the District Court of the Virgin Islands, and the District Court for the Northern Mariana Islands shall not have jurisdiction to hear or determine any religious freedom-related case.

`(b) DEFINITION- For purposes of this section, the term `religious freedom-related case' means any action in which any requirement, prohibition, or other provision relating to religious freedom that is contained in a State or Federal statute is at issue.'.

(b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 85 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

`1369. Exclusion of jurisdiction over religious freedom-related cases.'.

SEC. 4. REMOVAL OF RELIGIOUS FREEDOM-RELATED CASES FROM FEDERAL CLAIMS COURT JURISDICTION.

(a) IN GENERAL- Chapter 91 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new section:

`Sec. 1510. Removal of jurisdiction over religious freedom-related cases

`(a) IN GENERAL- The United States Court of Federal Claims shall not have jurisdiction to hear or determine any religious freedom-related case.

`(b) DEFINITION- For purposes of this section, the term `religious freedom-related case' means any action in which any requirement, prohibition, or other provision relating to religious freedom that is contained in a State or Federal statute is at issue.'.

(b) CLERICAL AMENDMENT- The table of sections at the beginning of chapter 91 of title 28, United States Code, is amended by adding at the end the following new item:

`1510. Removal of jurisdiction over religious freedom-related cases.'.

SEC. 5. EFFECTIVE DATE.

The amendments made by this Act shall apply to cases filed on or after the date of the enactment of this Act.


"Conservatives and libertarians who once viewed the judiciary as the final bulwark against government tyranny must now accept that no branch of government even remotely performs its constitutional role. ...It's time for the executive and legislative branches to show some backbone, appoint judges who follow the Constitution, and remove those who do not." --Ron Paul 13 August 2003, Federalist No. 03-33, Wednesday Chronicle

The following explains why judge Myron Thompson is wrong:


The electorate must demand that Congress act in accordance with the testimony presented in Congress, the Court, and the Constitution

...the judiciary, from the nature of its functions, will always be the least dangerous to the political rights of the Constitution; because it will be least in a capacity to annoy or injure them.... The judiciary...has no influence over either the sword or the purse; no direction either of the strength or of the wealth of the society; and can take no active resolution whatever. It may truly be said to have neither FORCE nor WILL, but merely judgment; and must ultimately depend upon the aid of the executive arm even for the efficacy of its judgments.

...It proves incontestably, that the judiciary is beyond comparison the weakest of the three departments of power1; that it can never attack with success either of the other two; and that all possible care is requisite to enable it to defend itself against their attacks. ... from the natural feebleness of the judiciary, it is in continual jeopardy of being overpowered, awed, or influenced by its co-ordinate branches; and that as nothing can contribute so much to its firmness and independence as permanency in office, this quality may therefore be justly regarded as an indispensable ingredient in its constitution, and, in a great measure, as the citadel of the public justice and the public security.

1 The celebrated Montesquieu, speaking of them, says: "Of the three powers above mentioned, the judiciary is next to nothing.'' "Montesquieu: The Spirit of Laws.'' vol. i., page 186. The Avalon Project : Federalist No 78

Why bother voting when the judiciary can knock down laws like so many bowling pins? The Case for Impeaching Rogue Judges & A Republic, If You Can Keep It


Citizens Organize Events to Support Chief Justice Moore

Court ordered him to remove Ten Commandments monument by August 20.

Federal judge Myron Thompson has ordered Chief Justice Roy Moore to remove the Ten Commandments monument from the Alabama Judicial Building by August 20, 2003. In response, Christian leaders are calling on Christians to come to Montgomery, Alabama, to show support for religious freedom.

Preliminary details are:

Restore the Commandments rally on August 16 at 10:00 a.m. on the steps of the Alabama Supreme Court, sponsored by Vision America.

Rally on August 19 at 8:00 p.m. Check sponsor Christian Defense Coalition for details.

Candlelight prayer vigil on August 20 at 12:01 a.m. at the Alabama Supreme Court, sponsored by Christian Defense Coalition.

From August 20 forward, Christians will gather at the Alabama Supreme Court every day at 8:00 a.m., 12:00 noon, and 6:00 p.m. Evening rallies will be at 7:30 p.m. at locations to be announced.

Christian Defense Coalition director Rev. Pat Mahoney stated, "We are going to peacefully and prayerfully kneel in front of the court to prevent the removal of the monument and will stay as long as necessary."

America21 has established a 24-hour prayer vigil for Chief Justice Moore for the week of August 10. Anyone can sign up for one or more time slots to pray.

Roy Moore, elected as Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court in 2000, pledged in his campaign to bring the Ten Commandments to the State Supreme Court. He first gained national prominence as a state circuit judge when the ACLU sued him for posting a hand-carved wood plaque of the Ten Commandments in his courtroom and opening court sessions with prayers led by local clergymen. The case was dismissed because the ACLU lacked standing to challenge Judge Moore’s actions.

On August 1, 2001, he oversaw the installation of a monument to the Ten Commandments in the rotunda of the Alabama Supreme Court building. The 4-foot high, 2-ton monument also bears quotes from the Declaration of Independence, the National Anthem, the Pledge of Allegiance, Thomas Jefferson, George Mason, the Constitution of Alabama, and the Judiciary Act of 1789.

Private citizens commissioned the monument, which used no state funds for its creation or installation. Chief Justice Moore explained that it was installed at night, in after-duty hours, to not interfere with the work of the Court. The building manager, security, the marshals of the court and the legal staff were informed.

At a presentation ceremony the following day, Chief Justice Moore stated:

The institutions of our society are founded on the belief that there is an authority higher than the authority of the State; that there is a moral law which the State is powerless to alter; that the individual possesses rights, conferred by the Creator which government must respect.

On October 31, 2001, the ACLU, Americans United for Separation of Church and State, and the Southern Poverty Law Center filed two federal lawsuits against Chief Justice Moore. They represent several lawyers who practice in Alabama and found the Ten Commandments and statements from America’s founders "offensive" and therefore, in their view, unconstitutional.

The offense, the complaint states, is that the Ten Commandments monument communicates the belief that "the law of God is the foundation of—and superior to—the law and institutions of the citizenry, and that God is necessary to the administration of justice."

On November 18, 2002, U.S. District Court Judge Myron Thompson ruled that the monument was an endorsement of religion by the state, and ordered Chief Justice Moore to remove it within 30 days. But Thompson stayed (postponed) that order to await a decision from a federal appeals panel. The appeals panel upheld Thompson’s order last month.

On August 5, Judge Thompson lifted the stay and ordered the removal within 15 days. If not, Judge Thompson said he might fine the state each day the monument remains in place. This ultimatum raises serious questions, such as how a federal judge would collect the money and whether the state can refuse to pay.

One day before the order, Chief Justice Moore filed a brief contending Alabama’s Constitution allows the acknowledgement of God by the state, and that Judge Thompson did not have the authority to deprive the state of that right. He will also appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court.

Chief Justice Moore told The New American, "Anytime you deny the acknowledgement of God you are undermining the entire basis for which our country exists. Rights come from God, not from government. If government can give you rights, government can take them away from you. If God gives you rights, no man and no government can take them away from you. That was the premise of the organic law of this country, which is the Declaration of Independence. Because, if there is no God, then man’s power is the controlling aspect, and therefore power will be centralized."

To read an interview with Chief Justice Moore, as published in CWA's magazine, Family Voice, click here.


According to The Birmingham News, seventy percent of respondents support Chief Justice Moore's granite display, which includes the Ten Commandments, and statements from our nation's Founding Fathers that document America's Christian heritage. Only twenty percent disapprove of the monument's display, which was privately funded by Chief Justice Moore, and cost the taxpayers of Alabama nothing. The other ten percent were unsure. Tom Gordon, "Poll: Most back Moore on Ten Commandments," The Birmingham News, September 15, 2002

136 posted on 08/16/2003 3:40:15 PM PDT by Vindiciae Contra TyrannoSCOTUS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Robert_Paulson2
Conviently, you leave out a common retort by the colonists to the tax-oppressors in England. "We have no king but Jesus."
137 posted on 08/16/2003 3:41:25 PM PDT by =Intervention= (Moderate pubs and the liberals -- you know they love to get along....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: gdani
Not true. He removed all passages in the NT that were not spoken by Christ himself.
138 posted on 08/16/2003 3:43:14 PM PDT by =Intervention= (Moderate pubs and the liberals -- you know they love to get along....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 41 | View Replies]

To: habs4ever
Hey! Why not slam those who disagree with you as anti-Semetic! Democrats do it all the time, so it must be a good idea!
139 posted on 08/16/2003 3:44:38 PM PDT by =Intervention= (Moderate pubs and the liberals -- you know they love to get along....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Catspaw
House rebuffs court on 10 Commandments

By a vote of 260-161, lawmakers last week OK'd an amendment by Rep. John N. Hostettler, R-Ind., to prohibit any money in the bill funding the Justice Department from going to enforcement of the controversial decision.

140 posted on 08/16/2003 3:44:47 PM PDT by Vindiciae Contra TyrannoSCOTUS
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 124 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 101-120121-140141-160161 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson