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Time, Mechanics and Zeno Undergo Major Revision
spacedaily.com ^ | 13 Aug 03 | Brooke Jones

Posted on 08/13/2003 10:59:23 AM PDT by RightWhale

Time, Mechanics and Zeno Undergo Major Revision

by Brooke Jones, Wellington - Aug 11, 2003

A bold paper which has highly impressed some of the world's top physicists and been published in the August issue of Foundations of Physics Letters, seems set to change the way we think about the nature of time and its relationship to motion and classical and quantum mechanics.

Much to the science world's astonishment, the work also appears to provide solutions to Zeno of Elea's famous motion paradoxes, almost 2500 years after they were originally conceived by the ancient Greek philosopher. In doing so, its unlikely author who originally attended university for just 6 months, is drawing comparisons to Albert Einstein and beginning to field incredulous enquiries from some of the world's leading science media. This is contrast tospacedaily.com being sniggered at by local physicists when he originally approached them with the work, and once aware it had been accepted for publication, one informing the journal of the author's lack of formal qualification in an attempt to have them reject it.

In the paper, "Time and Classical and Quantum Mechanics: Indeterminacy vs. Discontinuity", Peter Lynds, a 27 year old broadcasting school tutor from Wellington, New Zealand, establishes that there is a necessary trade off of all precisely determined physical values at a time, for their continuity through time, and in doing so, appears to throw age old assumptions about determined instantaneous physical magnitude and time on their heads. A number of other outstanding issues to do with time in physics are also addressed, including cosmology and an argument against the theory of imaginary time by British theoretical physicist Stephen Hawking.

"Author's work resembles Einstein's 1905 special theory of relativity", said a referee of the paper, while Andrei Khrennikov, Prof. Of Applied Mathematics at Växjö University in Sweden and Director of ICMM, said, "I find this paper very interesting and important to clarify some fundamental aspects of classical and quantum physical formalisms. I think that the author of the paper did a very important investigation of the role of continuity of time in the standard physical models of dynamical processes." He then invited Lynds to take part in an international conference on the foundations of quantum theory in Sweden.

Another impressed with the work is Princeton physics great, and collaborator of both Albert Einstein and Richard Feynman, John Wheeler, who said he admired Lynds' "boldness", while noting that it had often been individuals Lynds' age that "had pushed the frontiers of physics forward in the past."

In contrast, an earlier referee had a different opinion of the controversial paper. "I have only read the first two sections as it is clear that the author's arguments are based on profound ignorance or misunderstanding of basic analysis and calculus. I'm afraid I am unwilling to waste any time reading further, and recommend terminal rejection."

Lynds' solution to the Achilles and the tortoise paradox, submitted to Philosophy of Science, helped explain the work. A tortoise challenges Achilles, the swift Greek warrior, to a race, gets a 10m head start, and says Achilles can never pass him. When Achilles has run 10m, the tortoise has moved a further metre. When Achilles has covered that metre, the tortoise has moved 10cm ... and so on.It is impossible for Achilles to pass him. The paradox is that in reality, Achilles would easily do so. A similar paradox, called the Dichotomy, stipulates that you can never reach your goal, as in order to get there, you must firstly travel half of the distance. But once you've done that, you must still traverse half the remaining distance, and half again, and so on. What's more, you can't even get started, as to travel a certain distance, you must firstly travel half of that distance, and so on.

According to both ancient and present day physics, objects in motion have determined relative positions. Indeed, the physics of motion from Zeno to Newton and through to today take this assumption as given. Lynds says that the paradoxes arose because people assumed wrongly that objects in motion had determined positions at any instant in time, thus freezing the bodies motion static at that instant and enabling the impossible situation of the paradoxes to be derived.

"There's no such thing as an instant in time or present moment in nature. It's something entirely subjective that we project onto the world around us. That is, it's the outcome of brain function and consciousness." Rather than the historical mathematical proof provided in the 19th century of summing an infinite series of numbers to provide a finite whole, or in the case of another paradox called the Arrow, usually thought to be solved through functional mathematics and Weierstrass' at-at theory, Lynds' solution to all of the paradoxes lay in the realisation of the absence of an instant in time underlying a body's motion and that its position was constantly changing over time and never determined.

He comments, "With some thought it should become clear that no matter how small the time interval, or how slowly an object moves during that interval, it is still in motion and it's position is constantly changing, so it can't have a determined relative position at any time, whether during a interval, however small, or at an instant. Indeed, if it did, it couldn't be in motion."

Lynds also points out that in all cases a time value represents an interval on time, rather than an instant. "For example, if two separate events are measured to take place at either 1 hour or 10.00 seconds, these two values indicate the events occurred during the time intervals of 1 and 1.99999…hours and 10.00 and 10.0099999… seconds respectively."

Consequently there is no precise moment where a moving object is at a particular point. From this he is able to produce a fairly straightforward resolution of the Arrow paradox, and more elaborate ones for the others based on the same reasoning. A prominent Oxford mathematician commented, "It's as astonishing, as it is unexpected, but he's right." On the paradoxes Lynds said, "I guess one might infer that we've been a bit slow on the uptake, considering it's taken us so long to reach these conclusions. I don't think that's the case though.

"Rather that, in respect to an instant in time, I don't think it's surprising considering the obvious difficulty of seeing through something that you actually see and think with. Moreover, that with his deceivingly profound paradoxes, I think Zeno of Elea was a true visionary, and in a sense, 2500 years ahead of his time." According to Lynds, through the derivation of the rest of physics, the absence of an instant in time and determined relative position, and consequently also velocity, necessarily means the absence of all other precisely determined physical magnitudes and values at a time, including space and time itself.

He comments, "Naturally the parameter and boundary of their respective position and magnitude are naturally determinable up to the limits of possible measurement as stated by the general quantum hypothesis and Heisenberg's uncertainty principle, but this indeterminacy in precise value is not a consequence of quantum uncertainty. "What this illustrates is that in relation to indeterminacy in precise physical magnitude, the micro and macroscopic are inextricably linked, both being a part of the same parcel, rather than just a case of the former underlying and contributing to the latter."

Addressing the age old question of the reality of time, Lynds says the absence of an instant in time underlying a dynamical physical process also illustrates that there is no such thing as a physical progression or flow of time, as without a continuous progression through definite instants over an extended interval, there can be no progression. "This may seem somewhat counter-intuitive, but it's exactly what's required by nature to enable time (relative interval as indicated by a clock), motion and the continuity of a physical process to be possible." Intuition also seems to suggest that if there were not a physical progression of time, the entire universe would be frozen motionless at an instant, as though stuck on pause on a motion screen. But Lynds points out, "If the universe were frozen static at such an instant, this would be a precise static instant of time -- time would be a physical quantity." Consequently Lynds says that it's due to nature's very exclusion of a time as a fundamental physical quantity, that time as it is measured in physics, or relative interval, and as such, motion and physical continuity are possible in the first instance.

On the paper's cosmology content, Lynds says that it doesn't appear necessary for time to emerge or congeal out of the quantum foam and highly contorted space-time geometry's present preceding Planck scale just after the big bang, as has sometimes been hypothesized. "Continuity would be present and naturally inherent in practically all initial quantum states and configurations, rather than a specific few, or special one, regardless of how microscopic the scale."

Lynds continues that the cosmological proposal of imaginary time also isn't compatible with a consistent physical description, both as a consequence of this, and secondly, "because it's the relative order of events that's relevant, not the direction of time itself, as time doesn't go in any direction." Consequently it's meaningless for the order of a sequence of events to be imaginary, or at right angles, relative to another sequence of events. When approached about Lynds' arguments against his theory, Hawking failed to respond.

When asked how he had found academia and the challenge of following his ideas through, Lynds said it had been a struggle and that he'd sometimes found it extremely frustrating. "The work is somewhat unlikely, and that hasn't done me any favours. If someone has been aware of it, my seeming lack of qualification has sometimes been a hurdle too. I think quite a few physicists and philosophers have difficulty getting their heads around the topic of time properly as well.

"I'm not a big fan of quite a few aspects of academia, but I'd like to think that what's happened with the work is a good example of perseverance and a few other things eventually winning through. It's reassuring to know that happens." Lynds said he had initially had discussions with Wellington mathematical physicist Chris Grigson. Prof. Grigson, now retired, said he remembered Lynds as determined. "I must say I thought the idea was hard to understand. He is theorising in an area that most people think is settled. Most people believe there are a succession of moments and that objects in motion have determined positions." Although Lynds remembers being frustrated with Grigson, and once standing at a blackboard explaining how simple it was and telling him to "hurry up and get it". Lynds says that, unlike some others, Prof. Grigson was still encouraging and would always make time to talk to him, even taking him into the staff cafeteria so they could continue talking physics.

Like another now retired initial contact, the Australian philosopher of science and internationally respected authority on time, Jack Smart, who would write Lynds "long thoughtful letters", they have since become friends, and Prof. Grigson follows Lynds' progress with great interest. "Academia needs more Chris Grigsons and Jack Smarts", said Lynds. Although still controversial, judging by the response it has already received from some of science's leading lights, Lynds' work seems likely to establish him as a groundbreaking figure in respect to increasing our understanding of time in physics. It also seems likely to make his surname instantly associable with Zeno's paradoxes and their remarkably improbable solution almost 2500 years later.

Lynds' plans for the near future the publication of a paper on Zeno's paradoxes by themselves in the journal Philosophy of Science, and a paper relating time to consciousness. He also plans to explore his work further in connection to quantum mechanics and is hopeful others will do the same.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Extended News; Philosophy; Technical
KEYWORDS: peterlynds; physicists; realscience
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Ground-breaking work in understanding of time
Eurekalert | July 31, 2003 | Brooke Jones
Posted on 07/31/2003 10:13:14 AM EDT by Nebullis
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/955747/posts


41 posted on 03/09/2006 10:02:05 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Yes indeed, Civ updated his profile and links pages again, on Monday, March 6, 2006.)
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Amateur mathematician’s time theories published at last
New Zealand Herald | 31.07.2003 11.04 am | NZPA
Posted on 07/31/2003 4:01:59 AM EDT by JerseyHighlander
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/955624/posts


42 posted on 06/23/2007 11:21:29 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (Time heals all wounds, particularly when they're not yours. Profile updated June 23, 2007.)
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To: spunkets
The operative word is actually "measure", and all he is going on and on about can be reduced to saying that measure is a distinct concept from any accumulation of points. Which is elementary measure theory, well known from special counterexamples in analysis, etc.
43 posted on 06/23/2007 11:34:39 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: Hank Kerchief
No modern calc explanation needs instants of any kind, that was all solved in the 19th century when analysis was made rigorous. It is true there was an era of flying by the seat of the pants, mathematically speaking, before then, from Galileo to Cantor, to put it at its maximum span. But all settled.

The reason the pros appeared to be interested is not the garden variety Zeno, which anyone who gets through analysis gets straight, but instead a "cat can look at a king" value seen in his critical comments directed at real physicists proposing quantized time. (With the tendency that such proposals, by others, are not needed and make the rest of the QM machinery less consistent not more).

44 posted on 06/23/2007 11:42:22 PM PDT by JasonC
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To: RightWhale
But Lynds points out, "If the universe were frozen static at such an instant, this would be a precise static instant of time -- time would be a physical quantity." Consequently Lynds says that it's due to nature's very exclusion of a time as a fundamental physical quantity, that time as it is measured in physics, or relative interval, and as such, motion and physical continuity are possible in the first instance.

I dunno.... I kinda like this part.

We measure time by events, but events don't cause time--Causality doesn't imply time, just event order.

45 posted on 06/23/2007 11:53:28 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (Banning Bread and Circuses is the New Bread and Circuses....)
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To: Cogadh na Sith

I haven’t posted many threads since this one. Never got to 1000, probably never will.


46 posted on 06/24/2007 8:17:30 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Treaty)
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To: RightWhale

This might be of help to anyone whose kids asks, “Are we their yet?”


47 posted on 06/24/2007 8:23:31 AM PDT by ThomasThomas
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To: ThomasThomas
“Are we their yet?”

Are we their what? And who is 'they'?

48 posted on 06/24/2007 8:25:48 AM PDT by RightWhale (Repeal the Treaty)
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To: avg_freeper

Isaac Newton shot down Zeno. It was an easy shot, since Zeno was not moving.


49 posted on 06/24/2007 8:35:52 AM PDT by reg45
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To: spunkets
As someone who ran screaming away from mathematics following a spirited exchange regarding the value "i" (imaginary unit, Sq Root of -1) versus the 'unscientific assumptions' of other pursuits:
The whole half way there, again, again, and again parable has always seemed simply a cute bit of silliness.

Stating that "The series...converges to the time it takes for the arrow to get there, because the remaining terms added in are essentially zero." reminds me of the 'usefulness' of any mathematical imaginary unit:
It disproves the model simply because it is required to explain the model.

That's why I wound up with a degree in Political Science and a career in aerospace (in which my math requirements were studiously limited).

The value of this guy's work seems to lie in (a) the fact that many established scientists detest it - causing one to marvel at the entrenched nature of much 'science', and (b) the fact that many others seem to believe it will allow for new investigation and, possibly, knowledge.

The I read in FR that it isn't a big deal, knew it all along, measurement does not freeze time, etc. And wonder what the causes of (a) and (b) are - ?

50 posted on 06/24/2007 9:17:57 AM PDT by norton
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To: RightWhale
I'm really not trying to start anything but who is on first.
51 posted on 06/24/2007 12:36:36 PM PDT by ThomasThomas
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To: RightWhale

This would make perfect sense if time was a circle.


52 posted on 06/24/2007 1:04:06 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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To: RightWhale

53 posted on 06/24/2007 1:06:57 PM PDT by Old Professer (The critic writes with rapier pen, dips it twice, and writes again.)
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