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Immigrant-rights group intensifies fight against civilian patrols on border
Associated Press via the Arizona Daily Star ^ | 8/12/03

Posted on 08/12/2003 7:21:52 PM PDT by Tancredo Fan

Updated 5:54 pm Aug 12, 2003

Immigrant-rights group intensifies fight against civilian patrols on border

The Associated Press

PHOENIX - An advocacy group wants to file a lawsuit on behalf of migrants who say they were victimized by armed civilian groups patrolling the border, and is seeking victims willing to serve as plaintiffs.

The Border Action Network claims the groups operate outside the law and violate the rights of immigrants. They hope to pressure authorities to intervene.

The self-appointed border patrol groups deny they are breaking the law, and said they pass along to authorities information that volunteers collect about illegal border-crossers.

Volunteers for the Border Action Network are stretching their search for alleged victims along the entire border and as far south as the Mexican state of Chiapas. The advocates began asking victims to come forward earlier this year through ads and radio spots in Sonora, Mexico.

Once alleged victims come forward, attorneys plan to sue the people or groups accused of assaulting, robbing, intimidating or illegally detaining border-crossers.

"The purpose of the suit is to get at their pocketbook," said Jesus Romo, a civil rights attorney in Tucson. "Our purpose is to bankrupt these individuals so that they stop their actions."

No lawsuits have been filed thus far.

Border Action Network plans to continue using radio spots and newspaper ads to find plaintiffs, particularly focusing in areas where migrants originate.

Finding plaintiffs for civil lawsuits also could make it easier for prosecutors and other officials to open investigations into the activities of civilian patrol groups, said Zoe Hammer-Tomizuka, a Border Action Network volunteer.

Glenn Spencer, president of American Border Patrol, an organization based in Sierra Vista that monitors illegal border-crossers, says his group operates lawfully and does not interfere with migrants.

Still, he said he's concerned about groups that plan to file lawsuits. "Things are getting a little hairy," he said. "They're heightening feelings on both sides of the border. They are trying to rabble-rouse."

Another group that has patrolled the Arizona-Mexico border was sued in Texas over two incidents of alleged abuse against detained migrants.

A lawsuit filed in May accuses Ranch Rescue and others of assaulting, falsely imprisoning and robbing six people during two incidents in March in rural south Texas.

The Southern Poverty Law Center in Montgomery, Ala., and the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund in Los Angeles joined in filing the lawsuit. The Southern Poverty Law Center monitors the political movements of groups from white supremacist groups to eco-terrorists.


TOPICS: Mexico; News/Current Events; US: Arizona; US: California; US: New Mexico; US: Texas
KEYWORDS: aztlan; crime; illegalimmigration; immigrantlist; invasion; nationalsecurity; reconquista; splc
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To: lentulusgracchus
Discuss the law or buzz off. Who's the troll?
201 posted on 08/19/2003 1:58:52 PM PDT by PRND21
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To: PRND21
I'm not talking about Dumas & Co - neither was the article posted. I'm talking in general about the border groups like CHD and ABP and how they are treated by local law enforcement.

As for Dumas & Co., I'm not sure if they did or did not step over the line. On this specific incident, I have not talked to local law enforcement and I do not know anyone all the way over in Yuma. I do know that Chris Simcox of CHD has announced that he's going to go to Yuma to offer training so that the people there will know what they can do and what they can't do and how to do it as safely as possible for everyone involved.

As I've said before, the best approach to take is that taken by CHD and ABP. ABP avoids all contact and performs their operations as far away as possible. CHD will come into direct contact with the groups of illegals only if it appears that they are in need of first aid or are in some sort of distress. CHD legally carries sidearms for their own protection as they have been attacked in the past. They do not draw their weapons unless attacked. As far as I know, they've never drawn a weapon in the presence of a group of illegals.

202 posted on 08/19/2003 2:31:47 PM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: PRND21
You can't shoot people involved in this non-felonious activity. You can, but you go to jail.

Really? Re-entry after initial deportation is a felony from what I understand. Can I shoot invaders that re-enter?

203 posted on 08/19/2003 2:37:04 PM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: lentulusgracchus
PRND21 just freepmailed me. He called me "girlish" and "dirty". I too instructed him that any further unsolicited freepmail would be considered harrassment.

His continued behavior further proves that he is a disruptor and a troll and is given to harrassment. I hope that the moderators are monitoring him as I requested.

204 posted on 08/19/2003 2:54:54 PM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: lentulusgracchus
PRND21: This account has been banned or suspended.

Check it yourself. Buh-bye, troll man.

205 posted on 08/19/2003 3:15:52 PM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: PRND21
Who's the troll?

Apparently, you are.

Alfa Mike Foxtrot.

206 posted on 08/19/2003 4:06:59 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Spiff
Uh-yup. Guess you can holster 'em, amigo.

Straight eye for the dead guy.

207 posted on 08/19/2003 4:08:13 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Spiff

You are free to do whatsoever you want to, but you are not free to break the laws with impunity. Hold all the kangaroo courts you want to and lynch all the people you catch if you want to, but don't expect a medal for being a felonious, murderous vigilante.

208 posted on 08/19/2003 4:19:55 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: dirtboy; =Intervention=; Cultural Jihad; Tancredo Fan; King Prout; Spiff
Recognizing the situation -- which 'Rat Governor Napolitano does not -- the state laws need to be changed on the subject of trespass, to strengthen the hand of property owners in conflict-ridden situations.

The State needs to recognize that there are two substantial problems here. One is drug smuggling by armed felons -- I don't think their presence on a person's land can be construed as anything other than a felony in progress, when they're a) transporting drugs and b) packing weapons c) across a national border in violation of customs, immigration, and possibly firearms laws as well (they commonly carry some automatic weapons).

The other problem is people-smuggling. Whereas the border-crossers themselves are arguably felons if they've been previously rounded up and deported, the coyotes most certainly are, so that when a large group of (say) over half-a-dozen people is encountered, then very likely at least one of the group is a coyote, and it is likely that a felony has occurred. Don't you think?

209 posted on 08/19/2003 4:27:33 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Cultural Jihad
Do you want to give the trespassers a pass?

Do you want to ignore the issue and just let them come on in?

I'm asking.

210 posted on 08/19/2003 4:29:08 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Cultural Jihad
You are free to do whatsoever you want to, but you are not free to break the laws with impunity. Hold all the kangaroo courts you want to and lynch all the people you catch if you want to, but don't expect a medal for being a felonious, murderous vigilante.

CJ - I don't plan to do any of that. I was just yanking the troll's chain. He said that you can't shoot someone for a misdemeanor but you can for a felony. I just replied as if he was giving everyone permission to shoot repeat offenders as a way to remind him that repeat offenders have committed a felony.

211 posted on 08/19/2003 4:31:10 PM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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Comment #212 Removed by Moderator

Comment #213 Removed by Moderator

Comment #214 Removed by Moderator

Comment #215 Removed by Moderator

Comment #216 Removed by Moderator

To: lentulusgracchus
PRND21 is back - unbanned. Among his first acts upon being unbanned was to send me an unsolicited freepmail containing only a disparaging remark. In addition he posted to this thread and had it quickly removed by the moderator. So, he's back to his old tricks and didn't waste any time.

So, be warned.

217 posted on 08/20/2003 8:48:27 PM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Back on topic, barring any more disruption from the troll:



Community News

Force OK in making citizen’s arrest, if justified
By Louie Villalobos, Staff Writer
Aug 20, 2003

Anyone wanting to make a citizen’s arrest can use whatever force they see fit, but will be held to the same standards as law enforcement officers when it comes to justifying their actions, Yuma County officials say.

What exactly constitutes a legal citizen’s arrest has become an issue after two men were arrested and criminally charged when they detained six illegal immigrants at gunpoint and with handcuffs last month.

Each man is now facing six counts of aggravated assault, five counts of unlawful imprisonment and one count of conspiracy to commit unlawful imprisonment following the incident.

As the men, Matthew Hoffman and Alexander Dumas, begin their court process, The Sun asked The Yuma County Sheriff's Office, the Yuma County Attorney's Office and a local gun shop about what citizens are permitted to do when attempting to detain someone they feel has broken the law.

In almost every case, the answer is simple. A citizen can place anyone committing a felony under arrest and use any level of force to detain that person, provided the level of force matches that of the suspect.

"If (the suspect) has the means and opportunity to use deadly physical force against you, you are authorized and justified in using force to protect yourself," said Yuma County Sheriff's Lt. Eben Bratcher.

Both Bratcher and the Yuma County Attorney's Office directed The Sun to Section 13-3884 of the Arizona Revised Statutes, which specifically addresses arrests made by private citizens.

The statute lists two specific instances where an arrest can be made. First, "when the person to be arrested has in his presence committed a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace, or a felony." Second, "when a felony has been in fact committed and he has reasonable ground to believe that the person to be arrested has committed it."

Bratcher said though that statute deals specifically with citizen’s arrests, entering the country illegally is a federal misdemeanor and doesn't qualify as a breach of the peace, meaning the state statute would not apply in this case.

County officials said the state statute can't be used to justify the detention of illegal immigrants, unless it is done on private property, where the illegal immigrants would be trespassing.

Officials have said Hoffman and Dumas were on federal land when they allegedly detained the illegal immigrants.

There are other state statutes that can be applied to a citizen’s arrest in connection with felonies, though.

A reading of the statutes shows that citizens are allowed to detain a person they feel has committed a felony or a breach of the peace and use force, but the suspect may not be subject to "greater restraint than necessary for his detention," according to statute 13-3881.

Essentially, that means a citizen can detain a suspect and use force to do so, but will have to justify the amount of force used. That's what people seeking concealed weapons licenses are taught, said Ronnie Gissendaner, manager of Sprague's Sports.

"The situation has to be more or less life-threatening," Gissendaner said. "Or what a reasonable person feels is life-threatening."

---
Louie Villalobos can be reached at lvillalobos@yumasun.com or 539-6858.

© Copyright, YumaSun.com


218 posted on 08/20/2003 9:26:46 PM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: Spiff
An excellent article, and clearly spells out that the border vigilantes are breaking the laws when they accost people in public and commit felonious aggravated assault and false imprisonment upon them.
219 posted on 08/20/2003 9:42:15 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Tancredo Fan
(COPY AND DISTRIBUTE WIDELY. Revise and extend as you see necessary, start a movement, print a petition, start a political party, confront your legislators, write letters, post posters, drop leaflets, demand, demand, demand…)

18 POINT ACTION PLAN: Border Violators

1) Close all US borders to illegal entry forthwith by any and all means possible, including military presence.

2) Maintain legitimate immigration levels at modest annual level with requirements that immigrants be employable or sufficiently wealthy for self-support if they do not intend to work, proficient in basic English and willing to be assimilated into American culture and language. All applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples.

3) Legal immigration shall be awarded to individuals on a lottery basis, wherein all countries are given equal status in the immigration lottery, without regards to color or economic plight of originating nation.

4) Individuals of Islamic faith (muslims) from any country shall be denied immigration privileges or entry into the US. Christians and Jews from muslim countries fleeing religious persecution shall receive preferential and accelerated immigration privileges.

5) Detain all border violators, taking photos, prints and DNA samples of said violator while at the same time, checking for out standing warrants. If no warrants are outstanding, return border violators to home country within 20 days via commercial airline and submit cost of such action, including processing and housing costs for said violator, to country of origin. If costs are not paid within 30 days, reduce any and all aid to said country by a like amount.

6) Should any country from which a border violator originates not currently receive any aid from the US, the Justice Department shall be authorized to seize or secure liens on assets owned, managed or registered to that country to the full extent of the obligation.

7) Establish new Guest Worker Visa (GWV) category, renewable every six (6) months, for unskilled labor positions wherein all applicants shall provide prints, photos and DNA samples. Work permitted of such applicants shall be limited to one of several categories, including childcare, lawn/gardening, restaurant staff, cleaning, and the like. Families of GWV workers are not permitted to enter US, nor will the birth of a child to one of GWV status confer citizenship to either parent or child.

8) Any violation of civil or criminal laws shall result in the forfeiture of the GWV and immediate return to originating country.

9) GWV holders shall be prohibited from claiming unemployment benefits, welfare support or free medical service.

10) The originating country of all GWV holders shall be responsible for any uninsured loss caused by the GWV, including emergency medical claims and/or claims resulting from illegal actions committed while in the US.

11) Companies who hire GWV holders shall submit to the Immigration Dept the name and GWV number of that individual, along with a description of employment tasks. Companies shall be subject to fines and penalty that fail to report employment of GWV workers, or hire border violators. GWV workers shall be paid with check, having income tax withheld. GWV workers shall not be subject to unemployment tax because they are not eligible to receive unemployment compensation.

12) Border violators, or any non-citizen not possessing a valid visa, detained by local police for any reason shall be turned over to border control officials for immediate deportation action, except if they face criminal charges in other jurisdictions.

13) GWV workers shall be prohibited for voting in local, state and federal elections.

14) Border Violators shall NOT be afforded the rights enjoyed by American citizens, as guaranteed under the constitution.

15) Public education (at institutions supported by taxpayer dollars) at any level (pre-school, kindergarten through the university level,) shall NOT be available to Border Violators (or children of Border Violators) and schools that enroll such individuals shall be subject to penalties.

16) Foreign Students (F/S) (individuals admitted to the U.S. for the purpose of attending any educational facility,) private institution or public (i.e. supported by taxpayer dollars,) must have valid student visas, such visas being in force only if the F/S attends school full-time. F/S shall be required to pay tuition, housing and related costs such that all their educational costs are fully reimbursed to the institution attended. The originating country shall pay for any and all loss caused by students while on U.S. soil.

17) Border Violators seeking emergency medical treatment shall provide pictures, fingerprints and DNA samples along with country of origin, and shall be treated then incarcerated until information provided can be verified. Originating country shall bear the costs of medical treatment and confinement.

18) Children born in the U.S. to border violators, illegal aliens or of foreign nationals in the U.S. for any reason (including temporary visitor, school or work visas,) shall not be eligible for citizenship as circumstances of birth, nor shall the parents or parent’s family members (relatives) be conferred U.S. citizenship as a result of such births.

220 posted on 08/20/2003 9:45:19 PM PDT by Imagine
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