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To: Spiff

You are free to do whatsoever you want to, but you are not free to break the laws with impunity. Hold all the kangaroo courts you want to and lynch all the people you catch if you want to, but don't expect a medal for being a felonious, murderous vigilante.

208 posted on 08/19/2003 4:19:55 PM PDT by Cultural Jihad
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To: Cultural Jihad
Do you want to give the trespassers a pass?

Do you want to ignore the issue and just let them come on in?

I'm asking.

210 posted on 08/19/2003 4:29:08 PM PDT by lentulusgracchus
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To: Cultural Jihad
You are free to do whatsoever you want to, but you are not free to break the laws with impunity. Hold all the kangaroo courts you want to and lynch all the people you catch if you want to, but don't expect a medal for being a felonious, murderous vigilante.

CJ - I don't plan to do any of that. I was just yanking the troll's chain. He said that you can't shoot someone for a misdemeanor but you can for a felony. I just replied as if he was giving everyone permission to shoot repeat offenders as a way to remind him that repeat offenders have committed a felony.

211 posted on 08/19/2003 4:31:10 PM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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To: Cultural Jihad
Back on topic, barring any more disruption from the troll:



Community News

Force OK in making citizen’s arrest, if justified
By Louie Villalobos, Staff Writer
Aug 20, 2003

Anyone wanting to make a citizen’s arrest can use whatever force they see fit, but will be held to the same standards as law enforcement officers when it comes to justifying their actions, Yuma County officials say.

What exactly constitutes a legal citizen’s arrest has become an issue after two men were arrested and criminally charged when they detained six illegal immigrants at gunpoint and with handcuffs last month.

Each man is now facing six counts of aggravated assault, five counts of unlawful imprisonment and one count of conspiracy to commit unlawful imprisonment following the incident.

As the men, Matthew Hoffman and Alexander Dumas, begin their court process, The Sun asked The Yuma County Sheriff's Office, the Yuma County Attorney's Office and a local gun shop about what citizens are permitted to do when attempting to detain someone they feel has broken the law.

In almost every case, the answer is simple. A citizen can place anyone committing a felony under arrest and use any level of force to detain that person, provided the level of force matches that of the suspect.

"If (the suspect) has the means and opportunity to use deadly physical force against you, you are authorized and justified in using force to protect yourself," said Yuma County Sheriff's Lt. Eben Bratcher.

Both Bratcher and the Yuma County Attorney's Office directed The Sun to Section 13-3884 of the Arizona Revised Statutes, which specifically addresses arrests made by private citizens.

The statute lists two specific instances where an arrest can be made. First, "when the person to be arrested has in his presence committed a misdemeanor amounting to a breach of the peace, or a felony." Second, "when a felony has been in fact committed and he has reasonable ground to believe that the person to be arrested has committed it."

Bratcher said though that statute deals specifically with citizen’s arrests, entering the country illegally is a federal misdemeanor and doesn't qualify as a breach of the peace, meaning the state statute would not apply in this case.

County officials said the state statute can't be used to justify the detention of illegal immigrants, unless it is done on private property, where the illegal immigrants would be trespassing.

Officials have said Hoffman and Dumas were on federal land when they allegedly detained the illegal immigrants.

There are other state statutes that can be applied to a citizen’s arrest in connection with felonies, though.

A reading of the statutes shows that citizens are allowed to detain a person they feel has committed a felony or a breach of the peace and use force, but the suspect may not be subject to "greater restraint than necessary for his detention," according to statute 13-3881.

Essentially, that means a citizen can detain a suspect and use force to do so, but will have to justify the amount of force used. That's what people seeking concealed weapons licenses are taught, said Ronnie Gissendaner, manager of Sprague's Sports.

"The situation has to be more or less life-threatening," Gissendaner said. "Or what a reasonable person feels is life-threatening."

---
Louie Villalobos can be reached at lvillalobos@yumasun.com or 539-6858.

© Copyright, YumaSun.com


218 posted on 08/20/2003 9:26:46 PM PDT by Spiff (Have you committed one random act of thoughtcrime today?)
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