Ron Paul - Federal Courts and the Imaginary Constitution

House Web Site ^ | 8-11-2003 | Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX)

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Not at all - the electoral college breaks up sectionalism, and ensures that the desires of more of the nation as a whole are being considered and addressed in campaigns.

That isn't a "states rights" argument.

[mrsmith]

"Historically, there has been no practical relationship whatsoever between the concepts of "liberty" and "states rights""

Not just wrong, but very wrong.

Such "liberties" as prostitution and legal private sodomy came from the people of the states.
The people in the states also removed their state-supported religious establishments.

Jim Crow was the exception in the states' experimentations with liberty.

[xrp]

Properly restated:

Strongly disagree with freedom of choice — 45.3%.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

How many was that? One?

[xrp]

About a third of Americans supported George Washington and fought against the British. About a third of Americans supported King George III of England and fought for the British, and about a third of Americans sat on the fence and occasionally joined whichever side was winning at the moment.

Now this surely wasn't good news for the pro-freedom movement back in the 1770s. 1/3 of Americans were pro-American/freedom, 1/3 were pro-British/continued oppression, 1/3 were fair-weather fans. Which side would you have been on?

Another reference paints a less bleak picture:

That wasn’t the case, as only 20% of the entire population of America supported the American Revolution.

[mrsmith]

I dare say ALL rights were first recognized by a state before they were recognized by the federal government.

If you can think of any counter-example...

There's no growth of liberty without experimentation. Some times the people get it wrong, but historically Americans have done pretty well seeking liberty in their states.

[Chancellor Palpatine]

Some times the people get it wrong, but historically Americans have done pretty well seeking liberty in their states.

Tell that to the blacks down south who were shut out of the voting booth and their communities all the way into the 60s.

How many southern states voluntarily conveyed voting rights and and eliminated legal segregation prior to the 60s?

[mrsmith]

Slavery was outlawed and black rights were recognized by states before the federal government.

Too bad you don't approve.
Maybe you can get the federal government to put an end to the rights of states to do such things.

[CWOJackson]

It would appear that the libertarian crowd has finally gone full circle; from legal prostitution to big brother in your bedroom all because ron paul says so.

[tpaine]

Ron Paul is wrong about our right to be left alone in the privacy of our homes. Such rights have always been recognized in our common law:

"A great lawyer of the [Puritan] period, Sir Edward Coke, made it a maxim that the common law was the embodiment of reason; -- it followed that judges must not only give reasons for their decisions, but must use reason to iron out the kinks created by bad cases….
"Nature is the twin of reason in that both are given: man is the reasoning animal by nature, and nature is what man finds ready-made to be reasoned about. It acts apart from his will and wishes.
Natural law and natural rights seem plain when one argues about fundamentals;
for instance, that every human being has a right to live unmolested, that government is needed to ensure that right, and that man-made laws must serve and not defeat natural rights.

If any civil law does work against a natural right, the law of nature warrants disobeying the law and even overthrowing the government."
"These reasonings are familiar to those who remember the preamble to the Declaration of Independence…."

[CWOJackson]

tpaine,

Have we been transported to some sort of strange parallel universe? Here I am on a libertarian Ron Paul thread, where he and the libertarians are claiming that the state has a right to regulate what consenting adults do in the privacy of their own homes, I'm arguing to libertarians that the state has no authority to regulate my bedroom, AND you and I are in agreement?

I haven't had a drink in days! What's going on here?

[CWOJackson]

YOU started this thread!

What in the blazes is going on? I'd surely like to know before tpaine and I go out for coffee?

[bc2]

what a freakin' weird thread...

[jmc813]

What in the blazes is going on?

I think you are under the mistaken impression that libertarians are pro-deviance. Given the smearing of us here on FR, this is not surprising. Most libertarians simply wish that we would follow the Constitution when governing. In my humble opinion, and I realize tpaine and I disagree on this one, the seperation of federal and state government takes precident over a "right to privacy".

[tpaine]

I'm arguing to libertarians that the state has no authority to regulate my bedroom, AND you and I are in agreement?
I haven't had a drink in days! What's going on here?
-cwo-



Some libertarians seem to think that state/local legislators should have the power to make prohibitive law 'regulating' non-violent private behavior. - For religious reasons? - Beats me...

Apparently they dream this power can be controlled by reasonable men who can vote with their feet if all else fails.
Odd belief, contradicted by history,imo.

[breakem]

Oddly, many here think that if the constitution doesn't list a right then they don't have it. They somehow got it in their heads that the purpose of the constitution was to list all human rights. These people are holding their breath hoping the state doesn't tell them what to have for breakfast and when to go to bed.

[CWOJackson]

What's next, no knock bed checks?

[tpaine]

I realize tpaine and I disagree on this one, the seperation of federal and state government takes precident over a "right to privacy".
74 -jmc-


You can't seem understand the concept that our individual constitutional rights take precident over both federal and state governmental powers that were granted to 'regulate' behavior.

[Scenic Sounds]

I'm aware of how screwed up the USSC, our legislators over-reaching their mandates, and for how long this has been going on. Starting back with Washington's abuse of the whiskey distillers.

Good point! This is more than just a recent trend. ;-)

[breakem]

the state will announce bed time on your local channels