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To: BlackElk
You want your wallet protected and don't give a damn about morality. You cannot draft my vote or that of California movement conservatives for the social leftist Shwarzenkennedy. Be as sick and tired as you like but you have no right to these votes. You cannot name with certainty a single thing that Aaaaahnold will even attempt to accomplish because HE won't dare say anything,. Now why is that, do you suppose?

Arnold has said he will attemtp to bring businesses back to California and that is a good start...


My morality is not your morality and you can't legislate morality..only laws.....and IMO you are cutting off your nose to spite your face..taking two steps backwards instead of one step forward. Someone's stance on abortion is not the end all...you want to change public opinion educate people don't badger them....how do you feel when Jehovah's Witnesses pound on your door? What - you have a difference of opinion than other so called religious people? You want to do something about sodomy, why not start within the Catholic Church, it seems to be a breeding ground for NAMBLA..hypocracy at its finest...

113 posted on 08/11/2003 4:57:08 PM PDT by rolling_stone
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To: rolling_stone; sinkspur; BlackElk
You completely misunderstand the phrase 'you cannot legislate morality.' It is a negative: that is, one cannot make me love, (say) Sinkspur, by law.

Were your interpretation the correct one, homicide statutes would be eliminated. OK by me, as long as it's only in California that it happens...
118 posted on 08/11/2003 7:08:45 PM PDT by ninenot (Progressives make mistakes. Conservatives don't correct them.--Chesterton)
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To: rolling_stone; ninenot; american colleen; saradippity; sittnick
As a Catholic during my time as a lawyer, I have represented a woman who was a Jehovah's Witness in a child custody matter since her religion, like mine, is protected from government interference. She is actually one of the Witnesses who go door-to-door. I very much disagree with the tenets of her faith. I very much respected her as a moral exemplar and her parents and siblings as well.

When Witnesses or Mormons come to my door, I treat them with respect, tell them that their dedication to spreading their respective faiths and willingness to put up with rudeness from some people other than me is an example that might well be followed by memebrs of my own Roman Catholic Church. Neither of those churches has caved in on either baby-killing nor on sodomy and neither is likely to do so either. I tell them that I am willing to listen to what they have to say but that I am a very orthodox and traditional Roman Catholic and that it will be a two-way conversation. Some have politely responded with thanks that I am religious and taken their leave. Others have stayed for discussion in which I use my own Bible. None have ever behaved other than respectfully.

What is this "so-called relgious people" business? They ARE religious people. My take on religion differs from their specific faiths. It probably differs from what I suspect is your rejection of religion.

You do have me on Ahhhhhhnold saying he wants to bring businesses back to California and that is a start. The rest of that particular position, according to George Will, is that he does not support raising taxes OR CUTTING PROGRAMS. "Guten Morgen, Herr Idaho Bisinessman, Ich bin ein governor of California....ja, Ich bin Schwarzennegger. I bin calling zis morning to ask you to move to California in spite of our taxes and regulations because I need more revenue for social spending and I will not raise taxes or cut spending either. Don't you want to move here?" Three days later Governor Ahhhhhnold receives a letter from Mr. Idaho Businessman, saying: Dear Governor Schwarzenkennedy: Some stumble-brained looney tune is impersonating you, sir, in telephone calls and ruining your good reputation by suggesting hilariously that we move our business from low tax Idaho to (you'll never believe this) high tax California where the regulations are something only Trotsky could admire and all so that we can help with California's, ummmmm, deficit. I wish you well in the impossible dream but, ahem, your work isn't being helped by this impersonator.

We legislate morality all the time. Do you pay attention to all the ranting about the borders as though they had been established by God? When we criminalize bank robbery, auto theft, spouse beating, assault and battery, murder, fraud, perjury, and thousands of other things, we legislate morality. Our legislatures do it before breakfast each morning. So do our regulators and our judges.

A candidate for public office does rather badly damage his standing with pro-lifers by mindlessly babbling: I'm pro-choice!!!! Translated into normal English, this means: you want to kill your baby? Hay, no skin off my nose. Kill as many as you like but whatever you do remember who told you it was OK and remember to vote for your friend. We are gonna give forty acres and a mule too and you are going to vote for your friend. Forty acres? and a Mule? Gee, that's swell!" No sense letting a little thing like 45+ million innocents slaughtered get in the way of self-interest, right?

Hitler built autobahns, provided a lot of neat construction jobs at good wages, got production of Volkswagens going, made the trains run on time (or was that Mussolini?), built Bismarck and Graf Spee, rebuilt the German military, made Europe respect der Vaterland once again, refused to pay what the Versailles Treaty imposed (gotta agree with him on that one) and did not merely protect his borders but expanded them wildly. There was that little matter of the camps and the Jews and the gypsies and Slavs and the priests and the nuns, but, hey, zo who ist perfecttt? Pretty please, Herr Hitler, ve do not vant to badger you or anything just to educate but could you give us chust a few Jews and gypsies and Slavs, and a priest and/or a nun or two so ze enemies of ze vaterland vill not be able to zay ve killed zem all? We get letters from our cousins in Indiana and Mizzzouri who are getting verrrrry touchy about this stuff. Zat is an awfully big country over zere and it is not wise to taunt zem.

Which brings us to the Roman Catholic Church, the oldest continuous organization (not simply faith which would be Judaism) in Western Civilization, founded and guaranteed by Jesus Christ Himself, protected by the Holy Ghost Himself and absolutely guaranteed to last until the end of this earth. You don't have to be so bashful. You have a lot of company out there. I think you have a bone to pick with us or maybe a few thousand. We would not be caught dead trying to draft you but badgering or counter-badgering just in case you might be badgering Catholics, now that is a different story.

First of all, you are not a very accomplished cheap shot artist. We have plenty of those around here since the kiddiediddling scandals and lavender lotharios in Roman collars erupted so broadly into the public consciousness. You are not us (RC) so what does it really mater what you think? It is really never any of your business unless or until you repent and become Catholic, but I'll bet you suspected correctly that I am going to indulge you anyhow. Well, in a stunning upset, you are right for a change!

As to the NAMBLA connection, there is one priest (released on bond by those red-hot intellectual court authorities) who addressed the founding conference of NAMBLA and told them what a great idea they had with that "Sex by eight or it's too late" routine and proceeded to live his life accordingly for the next 20-25 years, endangering the nether ends of eight-year old digestive systems regularly during that time. I always think he is Fr. Slattery but the name may be Shanley or something like that. Then there was Fr. Geoghan, also of the Boston Archdiocese who abused a hundred or so boys and pled guilty to all. When Geoghan leaves Walpole Prison, it will be in a hearse, probably from old age. I forget the name of another lifer who reportedly raped and murdered by crucifixion an altar boy also in Massachusetts but was not found for eight or nine years and turned out to have become an IBM executive in Minnesota. His crimes are no fault of IBM if you are following me here.

OK, OK, but it isn't just priests, what about the bishops????? I gotta tell you, I would burn a lot of them at the stake but they don't let us do that anymore. Any bishop who personally engaged in these perversions with children, adolescents or even men would qualify. A far larger group of the leftwing AmChurch bishops are guilty of covering up. This is NOT all of them, These Kumbayas are utterly incapable of punishing anyone to the left of Emily Dickinson for anything much less sexual perversions.

You like your Catholics to be non-judgmental and Kumbayaish in "educating" rather than "badgering." You are gonna looooooove our bishops and archbishops like Roger Cardinal Mahoney of LA, William Cardinal Keeler of Baltimore, former Archbishop Rembert Weakland of Milwaukee (a lavender queen in his own right) and a host of others.

You want to talk hypocrisy? Here it is. You want Catholics to be wimpy non-judgmental Kumbayas and then you attack blaming the Church for the very hierarchs and priests who are, well, non-judgmental Kumbayas as you claim to wish.

You can't possibly conceive of our Catholic rage at these collared faggots or begin to be as enraged about this stuff as actual Catholics are. It is our Church and our sorry AmChurch liberal leadership and liberal priests who have been responsible.

Further, it does not matter one bit that other people do these things insofar as some think that absolves Catholics. No behavior by anyone else absolves the slightest bit of responsibility of these abusers and their protectors and enablers. Shutting up about the infant Holocaust in America will not absolve anyone either.

As a matter lf criminal law and civil law, each and every perpetrator and cover-up artist in AmChurch must be punished to the max. Those laws cover everyone not just Catholics. It will hasten the cleanup of the Church. Rome is now appointing solid Catholic after solid Catholic to the vacant sees here.

As a cheap shot artist, you are strictly an amateur. We call the behavior cited above sin which also embraces many other evils. Our popes sin. Our cardinals sin. Our bishops and archbishops sin. Our nuns sin. We sin and so do you and everyone else which again absolves no one.

We, as Catholics, do what we please organizationally and when we please without your advice. We mark time in millenia. The world worries about the trend of the moment.

BTW, droid is our business because he claims to be Catholic. Protecting baby-killing is a serious matter with us.

138 posted on 08/12/2003 10:05:55 AM PDT by BlackElk ( It is always a good day to hunt RINOs and CINOs like rented mules!)
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