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The Democrats Big Lie
Fox News ^ | August 8, 2003 | Frank Gaffney, Jr.

Posted on 08/09/2003 6:11:22 AM PDT by rickmichaels

Edited on 04/22/2004 12:36:56 AM PDT by Jim Robinson. [history]

Adolf Hitler once observed that it was easier to convince people of a "big lie" repeated often enough than it was to deceive them with a lot of small ones.

In their frenzied bid to displace President Bush in 2004, leading Democrats have evidently taken to heart this tip from one of the world's most successful propagandists.


(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Culture/Society; Editorial; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: frankgaffneyjr; lies
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To: liberallarry
But I also believe - and support - the idea that the Administration exagerated the immediate dangers because its real reasons could not honestly be sold to the American public, and lack of action would have exposed the country to ever worse dangers.

What are you thinking the "real reasons" could be?
I myself don't think the Bush admin exaggerated one bit. I don't think the American people needed to be sold on the idea of our intervention into Iraq again.

61 posted on 08/09/2003 10:28:57 AM PDT by jla
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To: DPB101
I'm not implying anything. Just stating the facts.

Here's the neocon letter to President Clinton urging regime change in Iraq

Jan 26, 1998

Notice the names of the signators. Notice also that they thought the threat from Iraq was very significant back in '98 and advocated a very specific remedy - removal of Saddam Hussein.

Despite this I continue to believe that the Administration, and the neocons, have larger goals. I'm not saying they believed that Iraq and WMDs constituted no threat. Quite the contrary. The evidence is overwhelming that the last 3 Administrations worried about Iraq. I'm saying they chose to exagerate the specifics of the threat in order to sell their policy - which was to overturn Muslim culture - because that policy couldn't be sold directly. I think that is their policy because the neocons - and many others -have argued it consistently over a long period of time, because its obvious that many, many others in the Muslim world hate our guts and would do us harm if they could, and because the Muslim world has been failing for centuries and that failure has bred hatred, frustration, envy, misery, jealosy, poverty, you name it.

62 posted on 08/09/2003 10:37:31 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: TomB
So in order to do that we attack one of the most secular, non-Muslim regiemes in the area. Brilliant.<P. Yes it was brilliant. Because of its wealth, and the relative education and alienation from radical theology of its citizenry, Iraq has a good chance of transforming itself from a tyranny to a part of the modern world.
63 posted on 08/09/2003 10:41:10 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
Yes. I know "necons" supported going after Saddam in 1998. So did Joe Lieberman and every other Democrat in the Senate and all but 6 Democrats in the House (and 1 Republican). My question remains, why the harping on "Neocons"?

The original meaning of the word has been lost. Today "neocon" is used almost entirely by the left. Often by those on the left who oppose Israel. Over 95% of Republicans support Bush on the war. Yet you try to make it seem the entire war is the work of "neocons". Why?

64 posted on 08/09/2003 10:44:05 AM PDT by DPB101
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To: jla
What are you thinking the "real reasons" could be?

As I've said repeatedly, the danger comes from Muslim culture, not just Iraq and Saddam. It's this culture that breeds such people as Saddam, Osama, Khomeini, suicide bombers, Ghaddafi, etc., etc. They don't need WMDs to do us great harm - as 911 showed. Since we can't defend against boxcutters we've decided to attack the threat at its source. That's the real reason.

65 posted on 08/09/2003 10:46:08 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: DPB101
Why are you casting this as a partisan issue? If you don't like "neocons" then invent another word for those who support current policies. There are supporters and opponents on both sides of the aisle.

I'm arguing that we're trying to overturn Muslim culture and political structures and that emphasis on Iraq and WMDs is only a small part of that strategy - emphasized because it was most saleable, likely exagerated for the same reason.

66 posted on 08/09/2003 10:50:47 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: DPB101
Sorry.

I know why you're casting it in partisan terms - because the Democrats are. Of course, they are. That's the nature of politics. And they and their attitudes are the reason the Administration has to disguise its real intentions - in my view, and Stratfor's, and many others.

Well, I can't argue it any further. I could make the effort and cite many influential people who make the same argument I've been making...but I simply don't have the energy.

67 posted on 08/09/2003 10:59:40 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
I thought you'd more info on something Saddam might have been planning as to the urgency of our intervention in Iraq.
I really wouldn't think that "Muslim culture" would be W's "real reason" as he doesn't appear to have any aversion to it.
68 posted on 08/09/2003 11:05:24 AM PDT by jla
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To: liberallarry
I'm arguing that we're trying to overturn Muslim culture and political structures and that emphasis on Iraq and WMDs is only a small part of that strategy - emphasized because it was most saleable, likely exagerated for the same reason.

Actually, you were arging "the idea that the Administration exagerated the immediate dangers because its real reasons could not honestly be sold to the American public". We've already proven that "immediate" is a fantasy you and the left are trying to pass off as fact. The other part of your point is that Bush wants to "overturn Muslim Culture". That is also a fantasy. If it weren't, you wouldn't see the powers in Iraq kissing up to the Islamic leaders there.

No, Bush is going after Islamic Fundamentalism, not all of Islam. Even if he wanted to, it would be folly to declare war against over one-fifth of the population of the planet, millions of whom are residing within your own borders.

69 posted on 08/09/2003 11:39:38 AM PDT by TomB
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To: TomB
No, Bush is going after Islamic Fundamentalism, not all of Islam

That doesn't capture all the opposition and hatred towards us in the Muslim world but - ok - Islamic fundamentalism. Where do they live? Last I looked there were plenty in Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, much of Muslim southeast Asia, at least. So Bush is going after all those countries. Right?

70 posted on 08/09/2003 11:46:26 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: jla
I really wouldn't think that "Muslim culture" would be W's "real reason" as he doesn't appear to have any aversion to it.

Culture is one of those mushy words with no real definition. But there's something about the way the Muslim world does things that's caused it to decline over the centuries by comparison with European Christian countries. And it is a world in some way - distinct from Christian Europe.

71 posted on 08/09/2003 11:51:00 AM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
That doesn't capture all the opposition and hatred towards us in the Muslim world but - ok - Islamic fundamentalism. Where do they live? Last I looked there were plenty in Iran, Egypt, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, much of Muslim southeast Asia, at least. So Bush is going after all those countries. Right?

Yep, he is. So what's your point?

72 posted on 08/09/2003 12:09:59 PM PDT by TomB
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To: TomB
Yep, he is. So what's your point?

Think deeply. After a century or two it might come to you.

73 posted on 08/09/2003 12:12:44 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
Think deeply. After a century or two it might come to you.

Obviously not. Why don't you tell me?

74 posted on 08/09/2003 12:16:20 PM PDT by TomB
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To: TomB
Well, let's see.

He's gone after Afghanistan and Irag. And he's going after Saudi Arabia, Pakistan, Iran, Egypt, much of Muslim Southeast Asia, at least

...but not the entire Muslim world. Any clues yet?

75 posted on 08/09/2003 12:27:24 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: liberallarry
Any clues yet?

Nope.

76 posted on 08/09/2003 12:38:13 PM PDT by TomB
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To: liberallarry
"But it's also true that Saddam of 2001 was much, much weaker than Saddam of 1991."

And of course, you know this as a fact? Sources please!

Else, your credibility matches that of the dems.

77 posted on 08/09/2003 12:41:06 PM PDT by lawdude (Liberalism: A failure every time it is tried!)
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To: lawdude
Give me a break! It's common knowledge. Do your own homework.
78 posted on 08/09/2003 12:47:43 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: TomB
Nope

sigh.....

79 posted on 08/09/2003 12:48:51 PM PDT by liberallarry
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To: TomB
Why don't you name the countries of the Muslim world, putting checkmarks after those we're going after. Then add up the populations and wealth of those checked and compare them to the totals for the entire list.
80 posted on 08/09/2003 12:52:21 PM PDT by liberallarry
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