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Iraqi Trailers Said to Make Hydrogen, Not Biological Arms
The New York Times ^ | August 9, 2003 | DOUGLAS JEHL

Posted on 08/09/2003 5:36:27 AM PDT by Palm_OScar

WASHINGTON, Aug. 8 — Engineering experts from the Defense Intelligence Agency have come to believe that the most likely use for two mysterious trailers found in Iraq was to produce hydrogen for weather balloons rather than to make biological weapons, government officials say.

The classified findings by a majority of the engineering experts differ from the view put forward in a white paper made public on May 28 by the C.I.A. and the Defense Intelligence Agency, which said that the trailers were for making biological weapons.

That report had dismissed as a "cover story" claims by senior Iraqi scientists that the trailers were used to make hydrogen for the weather balloons that were then used in artillery practice.

A Defense Department official said the alternative views expressed by members of the engineering team, not yet spelled out in a formal report, had prompted the Defense Intelligence Agency to "pursue additional information" to determine whether those Iraqi claims were indeed accurate.

Officials at the C.I.A. and the Defense Department said today that the two intelligence agencies still stood by the May 28 finding, which President Bush has cited as evidence that Iraq had a biological weapons program. The engineering teams' findings, which officials from the Defense Department and other agencies would discuss only on the condition of anonymity, add a new layer to disputes within the intelligence community about the trailers found by allied forces in Iraq in April and May.

The State Department's intelligence branch, which was not invited to take part in the initial review, disputed the findings in a memorandum on June 2. The fact that American and British intelligence analysts with direct access to the evidence were disputing the claims included in the C.I.A. white paper was first reported in June, along with the analysts' concern that the evaluation of the mobile units had been marred by a rush to judgment.

But it had not previously been known that a majority of the Defense Intelligence Agency's engineering team had come to disagree with the central finding of the white paper: that the trailers were used for making biological weapons.

"The team has decided that in their minds, there could be another use, for inefficient hydrogen production, most likely for balloons," a Defense Department official said.

The Defense Intelligence Agency's engineering teams had not concluded their work in Iraq at the time the white paper was drafted, and so their views were not taken into account at that time, the government officials said. They said the engineering teams had discussed their findings in meetings in Washington in June and again last month.

"We stand by the white paper," the Defense Department official said. "But based on the assessment of the engineering team, it has caused us to pursue additional information about possible alternative uses for the trailers."

A C.I.A. official who spoke on the condition of anonymity said the agency was "continuing to gather more information about the labs, but we stand behind the white paper."

Since the white paper was made public in May, new information suggesting that the trailers might have been used for making hydrogen has come from Iraqi officials interrogated by American military officers in Iraq, a military officer said today. Those Iraqi officials have repeated the claims of Iraqi scientists that the trailers were used to fill weather balloons, said the officer, who spoke on the condition of anonymity.

Another government official from a different agency said the issue of the trailers had prompted deep divisions within the Defense Intelligence Agency. The official said members of the engineering team had been angry that the agency issued the joint white paper with the C.I.A. before their own work was completed.

The official said the question of how that had happened was being examined by the defense agency's inspector general as part of a broader inquiry that began in June.

A spokesman for the intelligence agency, Don Black, said he could not comment on the work of the inspector general.

The Bush administration has said the two trailers are evidence that Saddam Hussein was hiding a program for biological warfare. In the white paper made public in May, it detailed its case even while conceding discrepancies in the evidence and a lack of hard proof.

Senior administration officials have acknowledged that the United States has found neither biological agents nor undisputed evidence that the trailers were used to make such arms. They have said that intelligence analysts in Washington and Baghdad reached their conclusion about the trailers after analyzing, and rejecting, alternative theories of how they could have been used.

That view, described as a consensus of opinion with the C.I.A. and the Defense Intelligence Agency, was presented to the White House before it was made public.

At that time, a senior official who examined the evidence in detail and concluded that the trailers were used for biological weapons said, "The experts who have crawled over this again and again can come up with no other plausible legitimate use."

That official said the agencies had rejected the theory put forward by Iraqi scientists who said one of the units was used to produce hydrogen.

Today, a Defense Department official said of Iraq, "There is not doubt in our minds that they had mobile biological weapons trailers." But the official said there was disagreement within the Defense Intelligence Agency about whether those found so far were used to produce biological weapons or hydrogen.

The engineering team that has come to believe the trailers were used to produce hydrogen includes experts whose task was to assess the trailers from a purely technical standpoint, as opposed to one based on other sources of intelligence. Skeptical experts had previously cited a lack of equipment in the trailers for steam sterilization, normally a prerequisite for any kind of biological production.

Bush administration officials have said the most compelling information that the trailers were used for making biological weapons has come from a human source, an Iraqi scientist who described the trailers and what he said was their weapon-making role to American experts months before the trailers were discovered.

The six-page report that was made public in May, "Iraqi Mobile Biological Warfare Agent Production Plants," called discovery of the trailers "the strongest evidence to date that Iraq was hiding a biological warfare program."

Senior administration officials have said repeatedly that the White House has not put pressure on the intelligence community in any way on the content of its white paper, or on the timing of its release.


TOPICS: Extended News; Foreign Affairs; Front Page News; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cia; dia; hydrogen; iraq; mediabias; mediaspin; mobilelabs; trailers; weatherballoons; wmd
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To: xzins
OH!!! Please send this list to this thread!!!

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/951354/posts

41 posted on 08/09/2003 9:12:05 AM PDT by RandallFlagg ("There are worse things than crucifixion...There are teeth.")
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To: Palm_OScar
New York Times and an anonymous source. That strains credibility.
42 posted on 08/09/2003 9:14:20 AM PDT by verity
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To: RandallFlagg
Randall, I posted it on your thread. If you get additional links, please ping me or forward to me. Thanks.
43 posted on 08/09/2003 9:33:40 AM PDT by xzins
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To: xzins
Nice list
44 posted on 08/09/2003 9:39:50 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: FreedomPoster
Thinking about it some more, you and backhoe should compare notes. Check out some of his posts and link lists.
45 posted on 08/09/2003 9:40:31 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (this space intentionally blank)
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To: NativeNewYorker
Weather balloons? In Iraq?

What the hell do they need weather balloons for? The weather is going to be damn hot and dry. Today, tomorrow, the next day and every day after that.

46 posted on 08/09/2003 9:44:15 AM PDT by Scott from the Left Coast
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To: Scott from the Left Coast
LOL. Reminds me of the weather report by Robin Williams in "Good Morning Vietnam."

"It's hot....damn hot." :>)

47 posted on 08/09/2003 9:55:49 AM PDT by xzins
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To: Scott from the Left Coast
Balloons with radar reflectors to enable them to be tracked by radar for artillery batteries.

It's possible that they wanted their arty units to be self-sufficient in order to reduce the amount of stuff (gas cylinders) that would have to be transported in time of war.

Not that I doubt they had mobile bioweapons labs, it's just that this scenario is entirely possible.
48 posted on 08/09/2003 10:49:59 AM PDT by PLMerite ("Unarmed, one can only flee from Evil. But Evil isn't overcome by fleeing from it." Jeff Cooper)
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To: snooker
This was actually first reported back in.. hmm May? I think it was May they first found the trailers.. two weeks later quoting British, American, and Iraqi sources they said the trailers were clearly used for making hydrogen. Shortly after that the administration closed the books on releasing information on the public regarding the pursuit of WMD and have gone to their current policy of compeleting a full dossier before releasing their findings.
49 posted on 08/09/2003 12:01:44 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Almondjoy
ummmm ... well if it 'was reported' then it must be true.
50 posted on 08/09/2003 12:59:23 PM PDT by snooker
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To: snooker
I'm just saying that it has been consistant with reports from news organizations across the world that have been saying the same thing. Try to bring your sarcasm down to a level where it doesn't make you look like such a moron.
51 posted on 08/09/2003 1:29:14 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: Palm_OScar
The best way to read a NY Times article is to remove all of the unsourced material. The reason we have to do this is because the NY Times has over time gained a reputation for just fabricating sources. So here is the REVISED version of this article :

WASHINGTON, Aug. 8 — A white paper [was] made public on May 28 by the C.I.A. and the Defense Intelligence Agency, which said that the trailers were for making biological weapons.

That report had dismissed as a "cover story" claims by senior Iraqi scientists that the trailers were used to make hydrogen for the weather balloons that were then used in artillery practice.

The May 28 finding, [was cited by] President Bush as evidence that Iraq had a biological weapons program.

A spokesman for the intelligence agency, Don Black, said he could not comment on the work of the inspector general.


My, what a difference that makes!

52 posted on 08/09/2003 1:54:49 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: xzins
Schweet! Thanks!
53 posted on 08/09/2003 2:11:52 PM PDT by RandallFlagg ("There are worse things than crucifixion...There are teeth.")
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To: RandallFlagg
BTW, that's an important thread you've got. Those kind need a way of being reposted every now and then.

We could probably beg a moderator to put it on some sidebar again.

54 posted on 08/09/2003 2:15:29 PM PDT by xzins
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To: Almondjoy
In fact ummmm ... you do sound like a moron.

Ever seen hydrogen production? Doubt it. If you had you would know that the equipment shown in those trailers was in no way related to producing a flamable compressed gas, much less hrdrogen.

Only a moron would buy that crapola.
55 posted on 08/09/2003 2:24:03 PM PDT by snooker
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To: xzins
BTW, that's an important thread you've got. Those kind need a way of being reposted every now and then.

We could probably beg a moderator to put it on some sidebar again.

I've pinged the folks with knowledge about the bump lists, no help there. I'm probably going to consolidate it all on my webpage and ask Jim to put a link to it on the FR site.

I'm calling it, "The Arsenal."

Whaddya think?

56 posted on 08/09/2003 2:56:53 PM PDT by RandallFlagg ("There are worse things than crucifixion...There are teeth.")
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To: Palm_OScar
Bush administration officials have said the most compelling information that the trailers were used for making biological weapons has come from a human source, an Iraqi scientist who described the trailers and what he said was their weapon-making role to American experts months before the trailers were discovered.

There were many sources of intel. The NY Times author could at least have done a LITTLE research here. Or maybe he did and the editor edited it all out :

From the State Dept web site:

"Although Iraq's mobile production program began in the mid-1990s, UN inspectors at the time only had vague hints of such programs. Confirmation came later, in the year 2000. The source was an eyewitness, an Iraqi chemical engineer who supervised one of these facilities. He actually was present during biological agent production runs. He was also at the site when an accident occurred in 1998. 12 technicians died from exposure to biological agents.

He reported that when UNSCOM was in country and inspecting, the biological weapons agent production always began on Thursdays at midnight, because Iraq thought UNSCOM would not inspect on the Muslim holy day, Thursday night through Friday.

He added that this was important because the units could not be broken down in the middle of a production run, which had to be completed by Friday evening before the inspectors might arrive again.

This defector is currently hiding in another country with the certain knowledge that Saddam Hussein will kill him if he finds him. His eyewitness account of these mobile production facilities has been corroborated by other sources.

A second source. An Iraqi civil engineer in a position to know the details of the program confirmed the existence of transportable facilities moving on trailers.

A third source, also in a position to know, reported in summer, 2002, that Iraq had manufactured mobile production systems mounted on road-trailer units and on rail cars.

Finally, a fourth source. An Iraqi major who defected confirmed that Iraq has mobile biological research laboratories in addition to the production facilities I mentioned earlier.

...snip...

- source : "Iraq's bioweapons program: detailed info on mobile labs from pre-war intel," US State Dept., Feb. 7, 2003

57 posted on 08/09/2003 3:02:00 PM PDT by piasa (Attitude adjustments offered here free of charge.)
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To: snooker
Sigh... you totally missed my whole point which is why you continue to have zero credibility. I was merely pointing out the fact that this has been repeated time and time again since May in various news organizations, including fox news. Now I didn't make a statement either way as to whether I believed the story or not. I'm still waiting for the full story, meanwhile you continue to assume assume and assume some more. I'm sure you know the saying about people that assume.......

Now promise me you won't cry some more.
58 posted on 08/09/2003 3:20:47 PM PDT by Almondjoy
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To: snooker
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/929883/posts

59 posted on 08/09/2003 3:40:48 PM PDT by huck von finn
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To: snooker
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/935678/posts

60 posted on 08/09/2003 3:41:33 PM PDT by huck von finn
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