XM-8: New U.S. Service Rifle?

Modern Firearms and Ammunition website ^ | unknown | Unknown

[Clean_Sweep]

"some type of post detonation acceleration of the bullet"

This feature in a bullet would violate the Geneva Convention.

[evets]

makes a great 'stocking stuffer'

[Clean_Sweep]

Ya buy me one ok?

[Clean_Sweep]

Check the video at the bottom of the page "full Auto"

http://www.hk-usa.com/pages/military-le/rifles-carbines/xm8.html

[Long Cut]

It certainly looks like a handy little weapon. I'm very enamored of simple, "handy" firearms...light, short, few protruberances and geegaws hanging off and unbalancing it, etc.

I do think it could use a longer barrel in some circumstances...like open country (Afghanistan) for instance. Possibly, an 18-inch tube or so. And for Chrissakes put some iron sights on it!!!

[Woahhs]

If it's anything like the civvie version, it will have a rudimentary low profile, open sight with about an eight inch sight radius built into the carry-handle. Of course, if you sport the red-dot reflex sight above the optical, as with the G-36, the "iron" sight is blocked off.

[45Auto]

That's the Knight's Armament AR 47; I had heard that they are no longer making this gun. In fact, the most recent development in the new service gun/round debate has it that the 6.8 mm Rem Spc (a .270 caliber cartridge that is chambered in a modified AR 15 upper)is a good bet to be the next military round. Its a totally new cartridge that is straight walled, a little fatter and a little shorter than the 5.56, with a 115 grain FMJ bullet. The ballistics are said to be superior to both the 5.56 and the 7.62 x 39 Russian. Barrett and Remington have been in the forefront of its development. There is scant info on the web, but a search of 6.8 mm Rem Spc turned up some on a gun forum. Some prototypes have been built using Mike Rock barrels. Also, J.D. Jones of SSK Industries in Ohio has been involved and has published some ballistic comparisons to the 5.56, the .300 Whisper and the 7.62 x 39.

[Lazamataz]

That's the Knight's Armament AR 47; I had heard that they are no longer making this gun.

You remind me of a girl in high school who'd tease ya and then never consummate.

Now I've got Blue Trigger Fingers.

If you really loved me, you'd show me by letting me have the AR-47.

[45Auto]

I graduated from high school in 1965 and still, today, I know a few women like that. Despite the intervening years and all the PC hype, women's lib crap, assorted nonsense, they are still the same as always.

The 6.8 Rem Spc (center) is derived from the 30 Remington (left), and compared to the 5.56 (right). The straight walled case uses the same mags as the 5.56 (different follower) and does not require curved mags like the tapered 30 Russian.

[Squantos]

My vote on the XM8 is ...........NO !

Just a new dress on an old pig IMHO. Fine for armorers and parades yet sucks for troop up to his hips in grenade "pins". The M16 "system/design" works when properly cared for . Major problem of late was the effort to squeeze more range and maintain the effective kinetic wounding abilities of the older 55 grain projectile by different twist rate and heavier bullet.

I do not see the XM8 fixing either of these key issues that I have perceived as the driving force behind "replacing" the M16 design. If Uncle Sugar is gonna replace this many basic primary issue firearms then lets make sure we do it right and bring the caliber of both the rifle and the grenade launcher up to speed. My choices aside the rifle round needs to have the ability to make hits at 1000 yards for designated marksman and CQB ability to incapacitate targets in close .

If such requires a Hollowpoint design then so be it. Declared Wars seem to have been replaced by police actions and anti terrorism operations thus legalities of a hollowpoint vs ball be damned ! For that I'd suggest 6.5MM as a minimum. Insensitive high explosives (IHE) and ability of CAD will bring the 40MM HE-HEDP rounds down in size and weight and maintain the same ability to punch light armor and frag soft targets at existing use ranges.

Good thread still as ideas are evolving.......I'm learning a lot here.

Stay Safe !

[Travis McGee]

What rifle package is that 6.8 being made for? ARs with a different upper? Is that the only change required, same mag, same lower?

[Squantos]

Not sure what post or rifle you refer to for the 6.8 question but I think the same magazine and a necked up 5.56 "case" to 6.8 will result in too much loss of max effective range. A different case will result in major problems for the existing magazine IMO. This thing needs to be thought out more. I'm still not convinced that what we have in magazine design should be repeated. A closed, preloaded, disposable magazine with a 60 round capacity per maybe.

Bullpup designs keep coming to mind but they have their own bad and good too. I think a lot more thought is needed before we pay willy nilly to breed a new problem.

Stay Safe !

[Travis McGee]

That 6.8mm at post 469.

I don't understand the big deal about coming up with one rifle design for all units and all purposes. H&K retooled just to make a few thousand 10mm subguns for the FBI. Let the USMC, for example, pick their own rifle. Let several rifle designs compete in the field, adn see which works best.

[Squantos]

http://www.sskindustries.com/atlantis/6.8.html


http://airbornecombatengineer.typepad.com/airborne_combat_engineer/weapons_firearms/


November 17, 2003: For the last two years, Special Forces troops have been testing a 6.8mm M-16 and M-4 weapons. The purpose of this is to provide an assault rifle round that has better accuracy and penetration at longer ranges, and does more damage to people and material (like walls or doors) at short ranges. The 6.8mm round (6.8x43mm long) was selected because it allows an M-16 to be adapted to the new cartridge with minimal effort (new barrel and a few adjustments.) Existing 6.8mm cartridges are longer than the M-16 round (5.56x45), thus the special 43mm long 6.8mm (.27 caliber) cartridge being used in the tests. But the 6.8mm round is fatter than the 5.56 round, so the 30 round M-16 magazine only holds 25 6.8mm rounds. There is also talk that the 6.8 round has enough heft to work as a "whisper round" (a low velocity, slower than the speed of sound bullet that can be fired from a silenced rifle and makes very little noise.) Special Forces like this sort of thing, as it makes it easier to achieve surprise and not be detected. Note that, 70 years ago, when the U.S. Army was developing a new rifle (the semiautomatic M-1 Garand), the designer suggested using a 7mm round. He was overruled by generals who believed (wrongly, as it turned out) that a lighter round would not be successful on the battlefield. One rifle that lost out to the M-1 design proposed using a 5.56x45 round. So there is a sense of déjà vu to all this.


Stay Safe !

[Squantos]

http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nJwAAAPALcMFc0TyL7IcQWFs89WvYgrF!kysE!rRpKuwJtuakKiixatWAP*!H*Tqom3C4zDtQRHI


http://groups.msn.com/isapi/fetch.dll?action=MyPhotos_GetPubPhoto&PhotoID=nJwAAAPsLycLNnnSRK8AX9XCa3LBYhaDDNpkJCqpRQVC6BC14dgEYxrhFQcg4Ut27DbFKgZaOfQ0

[45Auto]

[45Auto]

Here's a 6.8 rem spc chambered gun from a company called PRI

[Travis McGee]

Kewl!

[Woahhs]

My choices aside the rifle round needs to have the ability to make hits at 1000 yards for designated marksman and CQB ability to incapacitate targets in close .

;)

[Squantos]

Now I was tryin to be nice to everyone with dial up........:o)

Stay Safe !