Conservatives rebuff gay Episcopal bishop

Washington Times ^ | 8/07/03 | Julia Duin

[kattracks]

Conservative Episcopalians are threatening to withhold millions of dollars in parish donations and form a separate U.S. church over the confirmation of the Rev. V. Gene Robinson as the world's first openly homosexual Episcopal bishop.

The Episcopal Church's action Tuesday "shattered the Anglican family" and "departed from the historic Christian faith," said a statement from the American Anglican Council, the lead conservative organization opposing Mr. Robinson's elevation to bishop of New Hampshire.

[Tarl]

Moral relativism has shook the church's foundation and should serve as a warning of the dangers of deviating from the written Word. Even those who serve the adversary can be seen as angels of light. Sad.

[Guyin4Os]

I hate the WT's style guide. It's so 60's with its indent 5 spaces and no space between paragraphs.

That said, The conservatives should have made waves in the Episcopal church years ago when the gay guy was ordained in the first place. They kept quiet then, and now its coming back to bite them. The only real recourse now is to leave. "Come out of her my people" is Jesus' message to those mired in false religion.

[hellinahandcart]

"In a more progressive denomination, a very conservative church — of which we have very few — is out of step, more closed and reactionary. But the more liberal churches are more open and accepting of a variety of people."

The attempts to shame converative anything just never stop.

The nearest to a position statement on the matter came at the 1998 Lambeth Conference, a gathering of the world's Anglican bishops, which decided 526-70 that homosexual practices are "incompatible with Scripture."

But 62 bishops in the US decided it wasn't incompatible with being a bishop.

Increasingly, Mr. Buford added, "we see young families, people who have a gay brother or son. These are upwardly mobile people who cannot tolerate exclusion and intolerance anymore."

In other words, Miss Marple, it is about the money. And they're willing to tell people anything they want to hear in order to get it.

[FreeRep]

Thousands have left for Bible truth!

[sgtbono2002]

I dont know the real story here?? Are they looking to bring in more money by catering to the queers? What could make a church vote to defend perverted practices? Have they all lost their minds? They were first to allow female priests . Have these Lesbians taken charge? Are they so filled with Homosexual priests that this has come about? I just cant see 62 straight Bishops , supposedly men of high morals and religious instruction, voting to allow this to happen. I think there are more queers in the woodpile here than we know about.

[aardvark1]

These are upwardly mobile people who cannot tolerate exclusion and intolerance anymore.

Should read..."cannot tolerte Scripture and authority anymore."

How can you "not tolerate intolerance"? Isn't that rather intolerant?

[2timothy3.16]

Thousands have left for Bible truth!

They are called, in the Bible, the remnant: God's remnant

[Miss Marple]

I posted a vanity thread yesterday, basically stating my position that this is the left's desire to gain control of the Episcopal Church, its real estate, its endowments, and its bank accounts. It gives them power and political clout.

The homosexuals are the method by which this is being done. They have gradually infiltrated the hierarchy, and they now have enough numbers to do this, despite the wishes of a good chunk of their congregations and despite the fact that it is anti-Scripture.

They do not care if the outraged leave. In fact, they would prefer it. That will simply allow MORE liberals and gays to assume positions within the church, and it will give them control of the financial aspect of the church. Don't look for any Episcopal funding of unwed mothers' homes. The money will now be increasingly diverted to anti-war groups, environmental organizations, Planned Parenthood, etc. etc.

The same thing is going on with all mainline denominations who have a hierarchy which controls the money and property. Denominations which have autonomous churches which control their own finances (like the Southern Baptists and the Assemblies of God) are less susceptible to infiltration nd take-over.

[writmeister]

IMHO, your post yesterday was right on the money. I have been saying for years that the only thing keeping the Episcopal Church together is they cannot agree on who gets the money, land, investments ... in a split.

[Gopher Broke]

Thought you might be interested in AMiA's Statement on Robinson. Their web site is:
http://www.anglicanmissioninamerica.org

The Rt. Rev. Charles Murphy, Chairman of the Anglican Mission.

The Anglican Mission in America, part of the worldwide Anglican Communion as an outreach of the province of Rwanda, has weighed in on the Episcopal Church’s decision to confirm the first openly gay bishop in the history of the Christian Church.

In voicing its disapproval, the Anglican Mission contends that the central issue is not, at its core, about homosexual practice or lifestyle, although the 1998 global meeting of Anglican bishops [Lambeth Conference] unambiguously declared the practice and lifestyle to be incompatible with Scripture.

“The real issue before us is a church, the Episcopal Church in this country (ECUSA), that is in direct conflict with the Scriptures” declared the Rt. Rev. Chuck Murphy, the Anglican Mission’s Chairman.

Murphy cited a December,1997 interview with the Philadelphia Inquirer Magazine in which the Episcopal Church’s Presiding Bishop, Frank Griswold, acknowledged as much, by stating:

“Broadly speaking, the Episcopal Church is in conflict with scripture. ... (One) would have to say that the mind of Christ operative in the church over time ... has led the church to in effect contradict the words of the Gospel."

Murphy notes that "it is this kind of confusion and presumption from the very highest levels of leadership in the U.S. Episcopal Church that has now produced both this latest vote to confirm the election of Gene Robinson, and the severe crisis of Faith and leadership that now exists within the worldwide Anglican Communion. The situation now before us within the U.S. Episcopal Church demands correction, and invites the outside intervention that will, I am sure, be forthcoming."

The Anglican Mission in America is a missionary outreach of the Anglican Province of Rwanda, established three years ago in response to the crisis of faith and leadership that exists within the Episcopal Church, to focus on reaching out to the 130 million spiritually-disconnected people in the United States. The Anglican Mission is a growing movement of churches now stretching throughout the United States.

[upcountryhorseman]

The basic issue is : This man has committed adultery!

[LiteKeeper]

SPOTREP - ECUSA

[Honorary Serb]

It isn't always about the money, at least i the case of Lutherans. Under at least many circumstances, a congregation can leave the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA), and keep its property.

______________

This excerpt is from http://www.wordalone.org/archives/speeches/drew.htm

Important provisions regarding property are set out in chapter 9.70 of the ELCA constitution and in chapters 7.03 and 7.04 of the model constitution for congregations. Under these provisions, an ELCA congregation that leaves the ELCA in order to transfer to another Lutheran church body keeps its property. If the congregation leaves in order to become an independent church or to join a non-Lutheran church body, then it does not keep its property unless the synod grants approval for the congregation to keep the property. If synod approval is not obtained, then the dissenting minority that wishes to remain with the ELCA is considered the surviving ELCA congregation and keeps the property. In order to avoid this problem, the congregation can choose a Lutheran church body with which to become affiliated upon leaving the ELCA. A new church body might be formed to serve this purpose, or the congregation could join an existing Lutheran church body. This does not necessarily mean the Missouri Synod or the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod. Several other smaller Lutheran church bodies exist also, including a group in Pennsylvania that ordains men and women on an equal basis.
________________

Nevertheless, the homosexual lobby is attacking the ELCA with particular meanspiritedness, blocking our conventions with stromtroopers known as "Soulforce", and undermining orthodox believers in any way they can, unti they get their way. They have the support of the ELCA's mis-leaders, despite the millions of fine, conservative Christians in the denomination. Their obvious goal is to force us out, or worse--to force us to knuckle under to their apostasy.

When we leave (after the expected 2005 pro-gay "decisions"), many will leave as individuals, leaving the church properties to the apostates, but no longer contributing to their coffers. But other whole congregations may leave and take their property, and join new "splinter group" Lutheran churches which are not really "splinters", but expressions of the historic Christian faith. Some congregations already have left in this manner.

The best estimate of many knowledgeable people is that the post-2005 ELCA, if it indeed "goes gay" as expected, will be a financial as well as a spirtitual non-entity. So it will provide no power-base of any consequence to the gay and apostate cabal. In the Episcopal church, where the dioceses own the property, it will be a different story. However, the gays have us Lutherans just as much in their gunsights as they do the Episcopalians.

[Miss Marple]

I have read the rule you posted above. I think that you will find that most churches who are leaving in toto are unable to keep their property.

In some areas there will be no other Lutheran Church for them to affiliate with. In other areas they will suddenly discover that a number of members refuse to leave, members who joined several years ago but were not very active or visible until the decision came up....and the property will stay with those mysterious newer members.

I sincerely hope that many churches can keep their property, but I am not optimistic. A lot will depend on how your hierarchy treats the situation.

[Honorary Serb]

......I have read the rule you posted above. I think that you will find that most churches who are leaving in toto are unable to keep their property. In some areas there will be no other Lutheran Church for them to affiliate with......

It doesn't matter if there is no Lutheran Chruch body in their area--they still can join (or start) a Lutheran splinter group, and keep their property.

For example, see the website of the Lutheran Churches in Mission for Christ, http://www.lcmc.net/

In the list of member congregations on that site, there are many that are the only affiliates of LCMC in their state. (Most LCMC congregations have left the ELCA, a few have not.) For example, see the LCMC affiliate in Tucson, Arizona. I know for a fact that that congregation, and several others from time to time over the last few years, have left the ELCA and kept their property. So--provided an entire congregation leaves and remains Lutheran, the gay/feminazi cabal and the other liberals wlll not get their property.

It is also instructive to look at the website of "Soulforce", the gay stormtrooper group that disrupts ELCA conventions in order to push the gay agenda:

http://www.soulforce.org/

The church groups that have been or are on these miscreants' "menu" for 2003 are, in order:
Southern Baptists
ELCA
US Conference of Catholic Bishops

The Southern Baptists and Catholic Bishops are obviously conservative groups. In my humble opinion, the ELCA is being targeted not because of the liberalism of its mis-leaders, but because of the conservatism of millions of its laypeople and nearly all of its true theological leaders!!!!

It is Lutheran conservatives--with their noble heritage of faith and of theological scholarship-- who are the most vulnerable theologically conservative Christians in the US to displacement by the gay/feminazi/"New World Religion" cabal!!!! And it's not about the money--IT'S ABOUT POWER, pure and simple!!!!

Even in the case of the Episcopal Church, where the liberals WILL steal a lot of valuable property, it's really about power, and substituting the demonic "New World Religion" for apostolic Christianity. If we want to be able to stop the gay "clean sweep" of four "mainline" churches, we need to know what their goals really are!!!

[Miss Marple]

Wel, of course its about power, which is why they want the money and real estate. I think it is more effective if we can speak out about the money, and tar them with the "greedy" sobriquet.