[hotpotato]

What about the research where pregnant female rats were dosed with cyproterone acetate, an androgen blocker?

What about it?

The male (XY) rat offspring did not exhibit male sexual behavior, they exhibited female sexual behavior.

This says nothing about the human desire to dress in clothing of the opposite sex or to carry that desire further and alter one's gender. This is not empirical data supporting a scientific hypothesis for transgenderism in humans. And neither does it explain the fetish of men who enjoy dressing up as and pretending to be little girls (not females of their equivalent age).

The drug could also, depending upon time of administration, cause a failure to masculinize the genital structures.

What does that have to do with normally developed males and females with normal XX or XY chromosomes who have convinced themselves that they are a different gender other than what testing indicates (or rather, convinced their family and friends).

Or, for that matter, what about the daughters of the pregnant women who were given DES (diethyl stilbestrol) In addition to genital abnormalities, the girls had a much higher incidence rate for lesbianism. There is strong evidence the DES was responsible.

According to what study? DES daughters may have abnormalities of the reproductive system with increased risk of cervical and vaginal cancer and infertility. What study indicates genital abnormalities? Here is some non-agenda driven information on DES daughters CDC - DES effects (http://www.cdc.gov/DES/consumers/about/effects_daughters.html) as well as DES Action (http://www.desaction.org)which works closely with the CDC and has no mention of the lesbian study to which you refer. Also, what does that have to do with gender identity confusion? Lesbianism is anpiy sexual preference, not a gender identity disorder.

There are chromosomal abnormalities which are *detectable.* There are also identifiable genital abnormalities, both of which are extremely rare and wouldn't begin to account for the number of transvestites and transsexuals appearing on the scene. Instead, these conditions would often disprove the argument you make (XY males or XX females whose genitals at birth are ambiguous - intersexed - and have been raised as the opposite gender but eventually reclaim their chromosomal gender identity).

Here's an article for you to ponder. You will note that these individuals use the same lingo as the transgendered when describing their situation and why they should not be in the body they have. Some doctors believe that to help these people, it would be better to give them what they want... surgery to remove perfectly good body parts. A New Way to Be Mad ( http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/12/elliott.htm )

[hotpotato]

I wrote "Lesbianism is anpiy sexual preference, not a gender identity disorder."

anpiy -> about

Sorry, it's getting late and I'm having trouble centering on the keyboard.

[punster]

Another anomaly:

There are XX (genetic females) individuals afflicted with what is known as adrenogenital syndrome. There is some degree of masculinization of the external genitals. There are also varying degrees of masculinzation of behavior in those individuals, ranging from being somewhat tomboyish in their behavior, to being lesbians.

Yet another anomaly:

There are a number of XY (genetic males) individuals with the genetic (sex-linked and transmitted through the mothers) trait of androgen insensitivity. Though genetically male, they are phenotypically female and they identify as females. Of course they are sterile, but they are function as girls and women in society. The only reason the condition is discovered is they fail to menstruate and are given a very thorough pelvic exam and chromosomal study. It does seem most appropriate to call them women.

As to your total dismissal of animal studies, the problem is it is unethical to do similar studies on humans. So animal studies are suggested to test hypotheses. You select a laboratory animal with similar biochemistry in the particular metabolic pathway of concern. If there is a question about the adequacy of experimentation on rats, then the answer is to repeat the experiment on other species of animals.

Another point about the rat experiments. Drugs like cyproterone acetate (a synthetic progesterone and androgen blocker), and several other drugs have been shown to block the actions of testosterone and other androgens in humans. They have been used for chemical castration agents for sex offenders. There is no question about their action on humans.