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Marriage Definition: Federalist Issue? (response to Sullivan)
Andrew Sullivan ^ | August 4, 2003 | King_of_Fools_04 (aka ChewedGum)

Posted on 08/04/2003 6:39:29 AM PDT by ChewedGum

Lately, Andrew Sullivan has brought up the concept of a Federalist, state-by-state approach to defining marriage several times. Yesterday he pointed out a quote from Clarence Thomas which he feels supports this position. (Link is here)

Here is the Thomas Quote:

"We have said that Congress may regulate not only "Commerce... among the several states," U.S. Const., Art. I, 8, cl. 3, but also anything that has a "substantial effect" on such commerce... [I]t seems to me that the power to regulate "commerce" can by no means encompass authority over mere gun possession, any more than it empowers the Federal Government to regulate marriage, littering, or cruelty to animals, throughout the 50 States. Our Constitution quite properly leaves such matters to the individual States, notwithstanding these activities' effects on interstate commerce. Any interpretation of the Commerce Clause that even suggests that Congress could regulate such matters is in need of reexamination."

And here are Sullivan's comments:

Thomas' reiteration of the fact that the federal government has no constitutional role in deciding civil marriage is a statement of clear conservative principles. But the theocrats and social conservatives don't give a damn if federalism ends up with results they don't like. That's why they passed the Defense of Marriage Act. They suspect that's unconstitutional. So what to do? Change the constitution!


TOPICS: Constitution/Conservatism; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: doma; federalist; gay; hetero; lesbian; marriage; marriageamendment; samesexmarriage
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My response to this (taken from my blog)

I disagree with the Federalist approach to this issue. Marriage is a status which has direct bearing upon many federal programs and agencies. A few examples are Federal Income Taxes, Social Security Benefits and FEMA benefits (Federal Emergency Management Agency).

The Federal Government is required to define what constitutes income. It defines what interest income is and then defines it further by classifying it into taxable interest income and non-taxable. It takes great pains to clearly define exactly how we determine the value for each of the 73 boxes on the Form 1040 every citizen must prepare each year. It also has every right to define what marriage is. It is necessary to do this - so that all Citizens are able to properly fill out their tax paperwork.

I do not think the Clarence Thomas quote applies to this issue because define (per Sullivan) does not mean the same thing as regulate (per Thomas). Currently, it is the states which regulate marriage. The Federal Government is not getting into the business of distributing marriage licenses. Different states have the right to grant marriage licenses as well as to set different requirements for granting said licenses (i.e. blood test requirements; waiting periods; minimum age requirements; etc.) The Federal Government enacting a definition of marriage (whatever that definition may be) is not going to affect the regulatory responsibilities of the states.

There are many issues that arise when the power to define marriage is removed from the Federal level and delegated to the states. It would be possible to have 50 different definitions of marriage. If one state should support same-sex marriage while another did not, then how would the IRS determine the filing status of the taxpayers from the different states? Would their marital status depend on the state they are filing from? After the inevitable lawsuits, it is my opinion that the definition accepted by the Federal Government would be that from the state with the broadest (most inclusive) definition. This takes the issue from a 'State's Rghts' issue back to to a Federal definition of marriage issue. The primary difference is that in this case, the legislature of one state would have the right to define marriage for the entire republic.

NOTE: The blog entry I am referencing has since been taken down...I'm not exactly sure what that really means.

1 posted on 08/04/2003 6:39:29 AM PDT by ChewedGum
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Comment #2 Removed by Moderator

To: ChewedGum
I have a question concerning law in general and how it applies to the states. I firmly beleive that states should be able to pass morally sensitive laws if it is the will of that states populace. So one state could ban prostitution, while another one makes it legal. My question is where does this end??? Where do states rights end, and federal rights begin? For instance, can a state promote racism (i.e. only whites, only blacks, etc have certain privileges)? Can a state have a state religion if it is the will of the people(i.e. Can Utah say Mormonism is the state religion and ban other forms of religion)?? I am not totally federalist or Constitutionally saavy, so I am a bit confused.

JM
3 posted on 08/04/2003 6:50:32 AM PDT by JohnnyM
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To: ChewedGum
"There are many issues that arise when the power to define marriage is removed from the Federal level and delegated to the states. It would be possible to have 50 different definitions of marriage."

The definition of marriage is not being removed from the federal level, it already resides with the states. What is being contemplated is an amendment allowing the Fed to define marriage, and remove that right from the states. This is further complicated by the "full faith and credit clause" which stipulates that each of the states must recognize the grants of all other states. That is why if you are married in Georgia, that marriage is valid in Texas, or a drivers license from VA is good in MA.

So the danger is that a Federal law defining marriage as between a man and a women would be unconstitutional because of the tenth? amendment (all powers not expressly enumerated are reserved to the states). An amendment would be required, and this would further diminish state's rights.

If there is not an amendment, and say CA passed a law allowing gay marriage, then all states might have to accept it due to "full faith and credit"
4 posted on 08/04/2003 6:55:38 AM PDT by ThirdMate
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To: ThirdMate
But it seems to me that by defining marriage for it's own purposes, the Federal Government is not restricting the states from coming up with their own functional definition. It just provides a baseline for Federal agencies to use rather than having to rely on definitions which vary from state to state.

Gum

5 posted on 08/04/2003 7:04:35 AM PDT by ChewedGum
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To: JohnnyM
I'm not savvy either but I think there is a point where states rights end and federal laws take over. (Or at least Federal courts as we have seen in the Texas soddomy ruling a few weeks back.) States are perfectly free to allow or disallow prostitution. As far as banning religion, I believe that would be a federal matter as it would be unconstitutional.

I guess you can do what you want within the bounds of the constitution. But - if a state went off the edge but remained constitutional, my guess is the legislature would find ways to 'encourage' them to come back to normallcy (via reduced funding).

Interesting ideas!

Gum

6 posted on 08/04/2003 7:10:57 AM PDT by ChewedGum
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To: ChewedGum
Well ,what is the Fed definition of marriage, for example in the tax code. I really don't know. Do they define it as a marriage recognized by the laws of anny of the states?
7 posted on 08/04/2003 7:18:57 AM PDT by ThirdMate
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To: ThirdMate
"complicated by the "full faith and credit clause" which stipulates that each of the states must recognize the grants of all other states. "

Yet a license to practise sodomy in Vermont would be no more recognized in Virginia than a Nevada license to practise prostitution.
The danger is that the Supreme Court will override it's constitutional bounds and rule otherwise.

Without the interference of the courts, the feds' definition of marriage for federal purposes is noncontroversial and needs no amendment.

8 posted on 08/04/2003 8:06:27 AM PDT by mrsmith
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To: mrsmith
"Without the interference of the courts, the feds' definition of marriage for federal purposes is noncontroversial and needs no amendment."

But it is becoming controversial. What if in the near future Congress amends the tax code to say "marriage for the purpose the tax code is marriage between a man and a woman"?


9 posted on 08/04/2003 8:18:37 AM PDT by ThirdMate
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To: ChewedGum
"Lately, Andrew Sullivan has brought up the concept of a Federalist, state-by-state approach to defining marriage several times."

I have a problem with discussions dealing with defining words that are already defined. Wouldn't it be more correct to use the word, 're-define?'

The next question would have to be, does the courts or congress have the authority to re-define words that already have legal definitions?

Re-defining the word, 'marriage,' to include same-sex would be tantamount to re-defining 'peach' to include lemons. Isn't it task enough for the courts and Congress to interpret and write the laws using words that are already defined, rather than re-define words they are supposed to use to perform those tasks?

I think so. Otherwise, why even have legal dictionaries or a constitution if 'rights' can be re-defined by the courts or Congress to include 'wrongs?'

Pandora's Box is going to contain many surprises -- none of them good. Allow this and be assured that some words in the Second Amendment will be reconsidered for 're-definition.'

10 posted on 08/04/2003 8:42:04 AM PDT by Eastbound
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To: ThirdMate
I don't see much of a problem with stating that "marriage" for federal purposes means what it was always intended to mean.
The controversy has no "legs" IMHO.

The people have Ninth and Tenth amendment rights to criminalize, ignore, or sanction homosexuality. The feds, including the courts, have to recognize that.
Let the people experiment.
After a generation of some states experimenting with sanctioning homosexuality the matter would no doubt be reconsidered at the federal level based on the results.

11 posted on 08/04/2003 8:53:08 AM PDT by mrsmith
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To: mrsmith
This gay marriage issue is so ludicrous that it hardly bears discussion. Especially in time of war.

But then again Western Civilization is under assault from within and without.
12 posted on 08/04/2003 8:59:54 AM PDT by ThirdMate
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To: ThirdMate
Well ,what is the Fed definition of marriage, for example in the tax code. I really don't know. Do they define it as a marriage recognized by the laws of anny of the states?

The federal Defense of Marriage Act (aka "DOMA") has two parts. The first part, in answer to your question, defines marriage as follows:

In determining the meaning of any Act of Congress, or of any ruling, regulation, or interpretation of the various administrative bureaus and agencies of the United States, the word "marriage" means only a legal union between one man and one woman as husband and wife, and the word "spouse" refers only to a person of the opposite sex who is a husband or a wife. 1 U.S.C. Sec. 7.

This definition applies only for purposes of federal law, such as income taxes, Social Security benefits, veterans benefits, etc. It does not regulate how the states define marriage for state law purposes.

The other part of DOMA governs the level of recognition that each state must afford same sex marriages licensed by another state:

No State, territory, or possession of the United States, or Indian tribe, shall be required to give effect to any public act, record, or judicial proceeding of any other State, territory, possession, or tribe respecting a relationship between persons of the same sex that is treated as a marriage under the laws of such other State, territory, possession, or tribe, or a right or claim arising from such relationship. 28 U.S.C. Sec. 1738C.

The authority to determine the effect of the Full Faith and Credit clause is granted by the Constitution directly to Congress, and not (unlike the authority to determine the meaning of other provisions of the Constitution) to the courts:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof. Art. 4, Sec. 1.

13 posted on 08/04/2003 3:55:04 PM PDT by MikeJ75
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To: ThirdMate; ChewedGum
"That is why if you are married in Georgia, that marriage is valid in Texas."

Not true 100% of the time.

EDITORIAL: A SHORT CRITIQUE OF THE "DEFENSE OF MARRIAGE ACT"
© 1996 National Legal Research Group, Inc.

I. INTRODUCTION.

In 1993, the Hawaii Supreme Court decided the case of Baehr v. Lewin, 74 Haw. 530, 852 P.2d 44, reconsideration granted in part, 74 Haw. 650, 875 P.2d 225 (1993). In this case, three same-sex couples applied for marriage licenses. When the Department of Health denied their applications on the basis of Haw. Rev. Stat. 572-1 (1993), which directs a clerk to issue a marriage license only to a man and a woman, the couples filed a complaint for declaratory judgment. The circuit court entered a judgment for the defendant on the pleadings, and the plaintiffs appealed.

The Supreme Court of Hawaii held that the Hawaii Constitution does not grant to persons of the same sex a "fundamental right" to marry. The statute restricting the marital relation to persons of the opposite sex, however, established a sex-based classification that was subject to a strict-scrutiny test in order to survive an equal protection challenge under article I, 5 of the Hawaii Constitution. The Hawaii Supreme Court thus vacated the circuit court's order and remanded the case back to the circuit court for further proceedings at which the state would have to show a compelling state interest that justified the sex-based classification. See also Shahar v. Bowers, 70 F.3d 1218 (11th Cir. 1995) (where employment offer made by Georgia's Attorney General was withdrawn when it learned of prospective employee's plans for homosexual marriage, strict scrutiny was applicable to employee's claim of violation of right of intimate association).

The Hawaii Supreme Court was careful to point out that it had not held that there is a civil right to a same-sex marriage, and it had not held that the statute restricting marriage to persons of the opposite sex was unconstitutional. All it had held was that the statute, on its face, denied same-sex couples access to the marital status and concomitant rights and benefits, thus implicating the equal protection clause of the Hawaii Constitution. Thus, a trial was necessary to determine the state's compelling interest in establishing such a sex-based classification. (In a related proceeding, the Hawaii Supreme Court denied the right of three clergy members of the Church of Latter-Day Saints and the Church of Latter-Day Saints itself to intervene as defendants. Baehr v. Miike, 80 Haw. 341, 910 P.2d 112 (1996).)

In response to the Hawaii court's actions, legislation called the "Defense of Marriage Act" was introduced in the United States Congress. The Act was introduced amidst a great deal of political furor, and this furor has tended to obscure sound legal analysis of what the Act would actually accomplish. The purpose of this article is to restore balance to the debate over the bill's enactment by objectively discussing the effect of its provisions.

It is important to note that this article will not discuss whether it is constitutionally required or even advisable for a state to allow a same-sex marriage within its own borders. It is generally recognized that a state, in its sovereign function, has the authority to regulate the marriage relationship and the power to determine the requisites of a valid marriage contract. SeeZablocki v. Redhail, 434 U.S. 374, 392 (1978) (Stewart, J., concurring) (state legislation that burdens an individual's right to marry is subject to strict scrutiny; states can and may prohibit marriage for such "compelling" reasons as consanguinity, immature age, presence of venereal disease, and prevention of bigamy). Based on this sovereign function, many states have held that they need not issue marriage licenses to same-sex partners. E.g., Weaver v. G.D. Searle & Co., 558 F. Supp. 720 (N.D. Ala. 1983); Alaska Attorney General Opinion No. 663-95-0451 (1995); Arkansas Attorney General Opinion No. 95-062 (1995); Dean v. District of Columbia, 653 A.2d 307, 314 (D.C. 1995); Kansas Attorney General Opinion No. 77-248 (1977); Jones v. Hallahan, 501 S.W.2d 588, 589 (Ky. 1973); Maine Attorney General Opinion No. 84-28 (1984); Jennings v. Jennings, 20 Md. App. 369, 315 A.2d 816, 820 (1974); Baker v. Nelson, 291 Minn. 310, 191 N.W.2d 185, 185-86 (1971), appeal dismissed, 409 U.S. 810 (1972); Nebraska Attorney General Opinion No. 113 (1977); M.T. v. J.T., 140 N.J. Super. 77, 355 A.2d 204, 208 (App. Div. 1976); In re Estate of Cooper, 187 A.D.2d 128, 592 N.Y.S.2d 797, 799-800 (1993); Gajovski v. Gajovski, 81 Ohio App. 3d 11, 610 N.E.2d 431, 433 (1991); DeSanto v. Barnsley, 328 Pa. Super. 181, 476 A.2d 952, 955-96 (1984); South Carolina Attorney General Opinion (1976); Slayton v. State, 633 S.W.2d 934, 937 (Tex. Crim. App. 1982); Singer v. Hara, 11 Wash. App. 247, 522 P.2d 1187, 1191 (1974). See generally Annot., "Marriage Between Persons of the Same Sex," 63 A.L.R.3d 1199 (1975).

This article will not consider whether these decisions are sound or unsound. Rather, this article will discuss whether, once a state has determined that it will issue a marriage license to a same-sex couple, the United States Congress can permit the other states to deny full faith and credit to the marriage in question. See alsoSage, "Sister-State Recognition of Valid Same-Sex Marriages," 28 Ind. L. Rev. 115 (1995); Cox, "Same-Sex Marriage and Choice of Law," 1994 Wis. L. Rev. 1033 (1994). The article will conclude that the states already have this power and that the proposed Defense of Marriage Act is unnecessary. It will further conclude that if the Supreme Court were to break from tradition and hold that there is no "public policy" exception to the Full Faith and Credit Clause, then the Defense of Marriage Act is unconstitutional on its face. The United States Congress cannot legislate a way around the Full Faith and Credit Clause if it is, indeed, absolute.

II. OPERATIVE PROVISIONS OF THE PROPOSED DEFENSE OF MARRIAGE ACT.

The proposed Defense of Marriage Act has two major provisions. First, the Act would deny federal recognition to same-sex marriages for federal benefits, including Social Security benefits, military benefits, federal tax benefits, and immigration. See Adams v. Howerton, 673 F.2d 1036 (9th Cir.) (whether or not valid under state law, marriage of two males would not confer spousal status under Federal Immigration Act), cert. denied, 458 U.S. 1111 (1982). This provision thus denies to the states their historical prerogative to define the institution of marriage, an unprecedented assumption of federal power in a field which is traditionally left to state law. See Griswold v. Connecticut, 381 U.S. 479 (1965) (marriage is a state-conferred legal status, the existence of which gives rise to rights and benefits reserved for that particular relationship).

Second, in the more discussed provision, the Act provides that a state does not have to recognize a same-sex marriage entered into in another state if such recognition would violate the fundamental public policy of the recognizing state. Since existing law already mandates this result, this second provision in the Act is essentially inconsequential. Indeed, bills that seek to deny recognition to foreign-state same-sex marriages on the basis of public policy have been introduced in 34 states. These bills were enacted in 10 states, were withdrawn, defeated, or killed in 17 states, and are pending in 7 states. E.g., Tennessee Senate Bill 2305; Utah Code Ann. 30-1-4 (1996); see G. Rotello, "To Have and To Hold," The Nation, Vol. 262, No. 25, p. 16 (June 24, 1996); H. Reske, "A Matter of Full Faith," ABA Journal, Vol. 82, No. 7, p. 32 (July 1996).

III. THE AUTHORITY GRANTED BY THE PROPOSED DEFENSE OF MARRIAGE ACT IS ALREADY PRESENT IN EXISTING LAW.

As a general rule, all states require the recognition of marriages contracted in another state so long as the law of the state where the marriage was contracted recognizes the marriage as valid. Stated otherwise, the validity of a marriage is determined by the law of the place where the marriage is contracted; if the marriage is valid in the contracting state, it is valid in other states. Loughran v. Loughran, 292 U.S. 216, 231 (1934); see, e.g., Acuna v. Sullivan, 765 F. Supp. 510 (E.D. Ark. 1991); Matter of Estate of Hendrickson, 248 Kan. 72, 805 P.2d 20 (1991); Yun v. Yun, 908 S.W.2d 787 (Mo. Ct. App. 1995); Bogardi v. Bogardi, 249 Neb. 154, 542 N.W.2d 417 (1996); Copeland v. Stone, 842 P.2d 754 (Okla. 1992). See generally 2 H. Clark, The Law of Domestic Relations in the United States 2.3 at 96 (2d ed. 1987).

This principle has most often been applied by states that do not recognize common-law marriages to recognize a common-law marriage contracted in a state that does recognize common-law marriages. E.g., Brisett v. Sykes, 313 Ark. 515, 855 S.W.2d 330 (1993); People v. Badgett, 10 Cal. 4th 330, 41 Cal. Rptr. 2d 635 (1995); Compagnoni v. Compagnoni, 591 So. 2d 1080 (Fla. DCA 1991); In re Marriage of Mosher, 243 Ill. App. 3d 97, 612 N.E.2d 838 (1993); Blaw-Knox Construction Equipment Co. v. Morris, 88 Md. App. 655, 596 A.2d 679 (1991); Carpenter v. Carpenter, 208 A.D.2d 882, 617 N.Y.S.2d 903 (1994); Rogers v. Sullivan, 795 F. Supp. 761 (E.D.N.C. 1992); In re Estate of Glover, 882 S.W.2d 789 (Tenn. Ct. App. 1994); Peffley-Warner v. Bowen, 113 Wash. 2d 243, 778 P.2d 1022 (1989); Matter of Estate of Foster, 180 W. Va. 250, 376 S.E.2d 144 (1988).

The public policy underlying this rule is that the law favors predictability, certainty, and uniformity of result in protecting the justified expectations of the parties. See Restatement (Second) of Conflict of Laws 283 comment b (1971). Thus, if the marriage is valid in the state where performed, a couple who later moves to another state need not fear prosecution for cohabitation or fornication, and the legitimacy of the children is clearly established. In furtherance of this public policy, many states have enacted "validation" statutes codifying this general rule. See Uniform Marriage and Divorce Act 210, 9A U.L.A. 176 (1987).

Despite the basic rule that a marriage valid where contracted is valid everywhere, the courts and validation statutes have universally recognized a number of exceptions, which may be condensed and simply stated as follows: A marriage valid where contracted will nevertheless not be recognized as valid in the forum state if such recognition would be contrary to a strong public policy of the forum state. Restatement (Second) of Conflict of Laws 283(2) comment f (1971) (marriage valid where contracted will be recognized as valid everywhere unless it violates the strong public policy of another state which has the most significant relationship to the spouses of the marriage); e.g., Fattibene v. Fattibene, 183 Conn. 433, 441 A.2d 3 (1981) (Connecticut need not recognize marriage that violates strong public policy of state); In re Estate of Loughmiller, 229 Kan. 584, 629 P.2d 156 (1981) (listing exceptions to validation statute, including marriage that is polygamous, incestuous, or prohibited by the state for public policy reason); K. v. K., 90 Misc. 2d 183, 393 N.Y.S.2d 534 (Fam. Ct. 1977) (court called upon to decide whether law of Poland, which requires civil ceremony in addition to religious ceremony, was repugnant to law of New York); Kelderhaus v. Kelderhaus, 21 Va. App. 721, 467 S.E.2d 303 (1996) (general statement that marriage's validity is to be determined by law of state where marriage took place, unless result would be repugnant to Virginia public policy).

There are three commonly recognized categories of marriages contracted in another state that will not be recognized in the forum state. First, marriages that are contracted by domiciliaries of the forum state in another state for the express purpose of evading the law of the forum state are deemed invalid. E.g., Loughran v. Loughran, 292 U.S. 216 (1934) (marriage entered into in Florida, in violation of D.C. prohibition against remarriage within certain amount of time after prior divorce, invalid in D.C.); Barbosa-Johnson v. Johnson, 174 Ariz. 567, 851 P.2d 866 (Ct. App. 1993) (appellate court holding that evidence did not sustain finding that parties had married in Puerto Rico for the purpose of evading the law of Arizona). See generally Uniform Marriage Evasion Act, 9 U.L.A. 480 (1942) (N.B.: The Uniform Marriage Evasion Act is superseded by the Uniform Marriage and Divorce Act, and was officially withdrawn from consideration by the drafters in 1943).

Second, states have refused to recognize marriages that are solemnized in sister states when the parties are of a level of sanguinity that is forbidden in the forum state. E.g., McMorrow v. Schweiker, 561 F. Supp. 584 (D.N.J. 1982) (rule recognizing foreign marriages does not apply to incestuous marriages); Catalano v. Catalano, 148 Conn. 288, 170 A.2d 726 (1961); In re May's Estate, 305 N.Y. 486, 114 N.E.2d 14 (1953).

Third, states have refused to recognize marriages that are solemnized in sister states when the parties are not deemed of sufficient age to marry, as determined in the forum state. E.g., Wilkins v. Zelchowski, 26 N.J. 370, 140 A.2d 65 (1958).

Given this strong tradition of a state's right to refuse to recognize a marriage validly contracted in another state if that marriage would offend the fundamental public policy of the state, there appears to be no reason for enactment of the Defense of Marriage Act. The states already have the ability to refuse to recognize a same-sex marriage should they so choose. A state's public policy regarding same-sex marriages may be adduced from the presence or absence of both statutory prohibitions and decisional authority regarding same-sex marriages. E.g., Uniform Marriage and Divorce Act 201, 9A U.L.A. 170 (1987) (defining marriage as a personal relationship between a man and a woman). Thus, federal legislation granting them a power they already have is unnecessary.

IV. THE PROPOSED DEFENSE OF MARRIAGE ACT IS UNCONSTITUTIONAL ON ITS FACE.

Since the Full Faith and Credit Clause is absolute on its face, it is possible to argue that the Clause admits of no general "public policy" exception. See Hirson v. United Stores Corp., 263 A.D.2d 646, 34 N.Y.S.2d 122, aff'd, 289 N.Y. 564, 43 N.E.2d 712 (1942) (as a general principle, local policy may not override the constitutional requirement of full faith and credit). Seegenerally 16A Am. Jur. 2d "Constitutional Law" 866-867 (1979). If this position is correct, then the proposed Defense of Marriage Act is not superfluous. It is, however, unconstitutional on its face because Congress cannot legislate an exception to the Full Faith and Credit Clause. Such legislation is not only in excess of its power, it is in derogation of the very states' rights that such legislation ostensibly protects.

The federal Constitution protects state sovereignty by limiting what the federal government may do, i.e., by defining the federal government's "enumerated powers." The Constitution does not delegate to the United States the power to create a categorical exception to the Full Faith and Credit Clause, thereby inviting states to disregard the official acts of other states. Rather, the Full Faith and Credit Clause empowers Congress to enact general laws and to prescribe the manner in which such acts, records, and proceedings shall be proved, and the effect thereof. Simply stated then, the Full Faith and Credit Clause does not allow Congress to decree that a state action which is disfavored by Congress on substantive grounds may be disregarded by states that share the congressional viewpoint. Taken to its logical extreme, were Congress to have the power it deems it has by proposing the Defense of Marriage Act, Congress could next declare that one state need not recognize a no-fault divorce of a sister state, or need not recognize a punitive damages award in excess of $100,000. Obviously, Congress could not enact such legislation. See Williams v. North Carolina, 325 U.S. 226 (1945); Cook v. Cook, 342 U.S. 126 (1951) (divorces in one state must be honored in another state). The "unifying" aspect of the Full Faith and Credit Clause would forever be undermined, and a state's authority to make a final, respected judgment would be forever extinguished. Milwaukee County v. M.E. White Co., 296 U.S. 268 (1935) (the very purpose of the Full Faith and Credit Clause was to alter the status of the several states as independent foreign sovereignties, each free to ignore the obligations created under the laws of a sister state, and to make the states an integral part of a single nation); see alsoMagnolia Petroleum Co. v. Hunt, 320 U.S. 430 (1943) (describing the Full Faith and Credit Clause as a nationally unifying force).

Indeed, even the United States Supreme Court recently recognized that the anti-gay animus of the majority is not sufficient to make a class of citizens strangers to the law. Romer v. Evans, 64 U.S.L.W. 4353 (U.S. May 20, 1996).

Therefore, if there is no public policy exception to the Full Faith and Credit Clause, the Defense of Marriage Act is not consonant with states' rights, because it is an act of Congress in excess of its constitutional authority.

V. CONCLUSION.

The authority given to the states by the proposed Defense of Marriage Act is an authority which the states already possess. Moreover, the entire purpose of the proposed Act is to limit the Full Faith and Credit Clause in a manner which is inconsistent with both the text and the spirit of the Full Faith and Credit Clause. For both of these reasons, the proposed Act should be rejected by Congress

14 posted on 08/04/2003 4:07:59 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Since the Full Faith and Credit Clause is absolute on its face, it is possible to argue that the Clause admits of no general "public policy" exception.

Interesting. This article explains three cases where the FFCC isn't absolute, with regard to marriage alone, and then goes on to say that it's unconstitutional because the FFCC is absolute. The FFCC reads:

Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State. And the Congress may by general Laws prescribe the Manner in which such Acts, Records and Proceedings shall be proved, and the Effect thereof.
Although it appears that states already have and use the power to decide not to recognize certain marriages from other states, it seems odd to state that the DoMA is both unnecessary and unconstitutional, while citing opposite arguments for those claims. Perhaps someone can clarify that for me?
15 posted on 08/04/2003 6:43:24 PM PDT by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: supercat
The difference being the words "general public policy exception".

Our Constitution's principal means of protecting state sovereignty is to limit the national Government to certain enumerated powers, but these powers do not include any authority to invite some states to disregard the official acts of others. It CAN however, on a case by case basis, exempt very specific issues such as the ones already decided in Court.

16 posted on 08/04/2003 8:27:19 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Our Constitution's principal means of protecting state sovereignty is to limit the national Government to certain enumerated powers, but these powers do not include any authority to invite some states to disregard the official acts of others. It CAN however, on a case by case basis, exempt very specific issues such as the ones already decided in Court.

Are there any federal statutes currently that allow states to disregard certain marriages from other states, or is it just something that has been done by fiat?

17 posted on 08/04/2003 9:20:04 PM PDT by supercat (TAG--you're it!)
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To: supercat
The author of this essay gives statutes and pertinent case law relating to the issues he argues. He lists several exceptions, and I would imagine that all cases reached court when a marriage entered into in one State, was not considered valid in another due to specific State laws or statutes, if not, there would have been no conflicts to begin with. In that case, there is not so much of a judicial fiat thing, but more of a legal decision on conflicting policies recognizing the State's right to define marriage.

It appears than in the cases listed, the FF&CC was excepted "if that marriage would offend the fundamental public policy of the state".

I don't believe that there are any Federal statutes which would give a blank "go-ahead" to States to ignore certain marriages from other States, the Feds neither have the power, nor the need to do that, the States already have that right, which is why this guy is qrguing that the Defense of Marriage Act is not only unconstitutional, but not needed.

Then again, I'm no Constitutional scholar, but you are in luck...this place is crawling with them.

18 posted on 08/04/2003 9:39:47 PM PDT by Luis Gonzalez
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To: MikeJ75
Very interesting, this clears up many things. But I am unsure from reading your post and the one following whether DOMA has been enacted, or if so challenged.
19 posted on 08/05/2003 3:41:47 PM PDT by ThirdMate
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To: Luis Gonzalez
Thanks for that good information. I will have to read it more carefully, because I am having a hard time reconciling some of the apparent contradicitions in the editorial.
I am always suspicious of arguments that include a fallback position. ie "I didn't do it, and even if I did do it, it wasn't a crime". Or "We don't need it, and even if we did need it, it wouldn't work".
The argument here seems to run "It is unnecessary, and even if it was necessary, it is unconstitutional."
I say, if you are arguing against something, one certain proof is all that is necessary, you don't have to dig fallback trenches to retreat to if your first line of defense falls.

As I asked in the previous post, what is the status of this legislation?
20 posted on 08/05/2003 3:52:30 PM PDT by ThirdMate
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