[djf]

Very interesting, I have considered things like this in the past.
Think about this: Look up at the sky at night at a star. Then, try to pinpoint which cell or collection of cells in your brain "knows" what a star is. The answer: NONE! Your liver cells have no idea what a liver is, or your name, or if the sun is shining.

This seems to show me a couple of things. First, that knowledge is not a binary type of thing, where you either have it or not. Certainly there are cells in your brain that respond to stars, but if they were to die, your brain would re-route that function to different cells. I have long ago discarded a simple stimulus-response model, but it is true in the early stages (I stub my toe, so I cuss and soak my foot).
Perception and knowledge seem to have a gestalt to them, a synergy, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts.
And what could that be? Perhaps the observer somehow takes on the qualities of the perceived thing. Maybe adds to the reality of it. Maybe if we curse some thing or person, we really do in some cosmic sense, effect how real or good they are, some sense we have no ability to measure, but if this measuring rod exists and is extra-cosmic (out of the sphere of our normal existence) that does not necessarily mean it is or is not any less real. I reject logical positivism as a primitive, solipstic(sp?) and hedonistic philosophy, we are active participants.

There was a show on Discovery a while back called "A Haunting in Georgia" about a young girl who started to have qhostly type encounters. The family cried, prayed, etc. They got a local guru from the college to come in with his equipment. Over and over during the show, the scientist would make statements like "Well, we know that sudden fluxes in the geomagnetic or electric fields can cause hallucinations..." etc.
It was quite a long show, 90 minutes or so. Finally, in the very last interview with the scientist type, he makes this statement: "We are forced to conclude that something residual remains after a persons death..."
All his hogwash instrumentation gets chucked out the window by those 13 words, an absolutely astounding statement.

In your living room, stand next to a wall. Then, move towards the center of the room. Now, look back at the wall.
This is where you used to be standing. It's not gone. It's still there. Just as real as you are. I think the time dimension is like that.

[betty boop]

djf, what you wrote is absolutely brilliant, lapidary!

It is marvelous to know that someone else has been thinking through the same things as me, on the basis of seemingly similar experiences and their reflection, and pretty much gets to the same place I get to. I thought your essay was simply beautiful. Thank you so much!

p.s.: You have also "set up" the thinking of another person whose insights on these subjects I hope to incorporate into a reply in progress, Hungarian astrophysicist Attila Grandpierre -- who really "puts flesh" on Raman's "bones."

[If I can ever get to write it!]

[Phaedrus]

Perception and knowledge seem to have a gestalt to them, a synergy, the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. And what could that be? Perhaps the observer somehow takes on the qualities of the perceived thing. Maybe adds to the reality of it. Maybe if we curse some thing or person, we really do in some cosmic sense, effect how real or good they are, some sense we have no ability to measure, but if this measuring rod exists and is extra-cosmic (out of the sphere of our normal existence) that does not necessarily mean it is or is not any less real. I reject logical positivism as a primitive, solipstic(sp?) and hedonistic philosophy, we are active participants.

I second bb's endorsement of your very insightful post.

[Semper Paratus]

It may be that thought, consciousness exist in higher dimensions that would be impervious to current forms of measurement and detection.

[unspun]

There was a show on Discovery a while back called "A Haunting in Georgia" about a young girl who started to have qhostly type encounters. The family cried, prayed, etc. They got a local guru from the college to come in with his equipment. Over and over during the show, the scientist would make statements like "Well, we know that sudden fluxes in the geomagnetic or electric fields can cause hallucinations..." etc. It was quite a long show, 90 minutes or so. Finally, in the very last interview with the scientist type, he makes this statement: "We are forced to conclude that something residual remains after a persons death..." All his hogwash instrumentation gets chucked out the window by those 13 words, an absolutely astounding statement.

I watched a similar program, where the final decision was to "perform an exorcism" (Roman Catholic style). Among the very untidy effects during and before this time, as I recall: the mother was thrown against a wall, and there she stayed for awhile, feet off the floor, nothing physical supporting her weight. And as I recall, that particular event occured during the exorcism --and not exactly the kind of thing one fibs about, with the clergyman among the witnesses. (BTW, the Catholic priest interviewed related that strong testimony/evidence of persistent evil spirits has to be given them, or they are very reluctant to cast out spirits, in their formal way.)

But, try bringing this up with a "logical positivist...."

BTW, there is no evidence that I know of, which positively confirms that spirits encountered on Earth are those long left by dead humans, but there is plenty that indicates spirits being from God's realm or deceiving ones who are opposed to it.

As I've mentioned before, truth is truth, facts are facts, knowledge is knowledge, no matter what tidy labels men might want to use, in order to imagine divisions of kind, so they can "make it all fit" man's disciplines.