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Kerry raps Pope: Senator fuming over gay marriage order
Boston Herald | Saturday, August 2, 2003 | By David R. Guarino

Posted on 08/02/2003 5:01:12 AM PDT by ninonitti

Bluntly telling the Vatican to stay out of American politics, U.S. Sen. John F. Kerry yesterday said Pope John Paul II ``crossed the line'' by instructing pols to block legalization of gay marriage.

A fuming Kerry, taking on his own Catholic Church in the midst of a campaign for president, said Rome should have more respect for America's long-held separation of church and state.

``It is important not to have the church instructing politicians. That is an inappropriate crossing of the line in this country,'' Kerry said. ``President Kennedy drew that line very clearly in 1960 and I believe we need to stand up for that line today.''

The Democrat said political concerns are secondary to his moral outrage over Thursday's Vatican statement on gay marriage.

``Our founding fathers separated church and state in America. It is an important separation,'' he said. ``It is part of what makes America different and special, and we need to honor that as we go forward and I'm going to fight to do that.''

Catholics were stunned at the broadside from Kerry, saying he's sure to draw the ire of some 65 million voting Catholics.

``What one often calls separation of church and state guarantees the religion the right to express its convictions,'' said Monsignor Francis Maniscalco of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops. ``To object to religious people's deep moral convictions . . . would also create a problem because it would also (fail to) recognize something the First Amendment guarantees.''

Former Vatican Ambassador Raymond Flynn said Kerry was just wrong. ``I don't see it as crossing any line at all,'' Flynn said. ``Too many Catholic politicians want to have it both ways, they want the Catholic vote but then they go ahead and ignore Catholic teaching.''

The Vatican injected itself into the simmering gay marriage debate Thursday, firing off a letter issuing instructions to Catholic politicians to oppose any legalization efforts.

``The Catholic lawmaker has a moral duty to express his opposition (to gay marriage laws) clearly and publicly and to vote against it,'' the directive read. ``To vote in favor of a law so harmful to the common good is gravely immoral.''

The statement followed by a day strong comments from President Bush denouncing gay marriage proposals.

Kerry, who supports civil unions but opposes the legalization of same-sex marriage, took pains to say, ``I believe in the church'' and ``care about it enormously'' but said church leaders went too far.

Alone among Democrats in criticizing the church, Kerry said he didn't weigh the political impact of his statement.

``This isn't a matter of political calculation, it's simply a matter of strong personal beliefs,'' Kerry said.

The Democratic senator also railed against Republicans who this week said Democratic efforts to block the judicial nomination of Alabama Attorney General William H. Pryor were anti-Catholic. One group, the Ave Maria List, ran print ads equating Democrats' opposition to Pryor as saying ``Catholics need not apply'' to the federal judiciary.

``That couldn't be further from the truth. This judge is not a good judge,'' Kerry said. ``He should not be appointed to the court, and many of us who are Catholic voted against him without regard to Catholicism.''

Kerry also continued his criticism of Bush's ``faith-based'' programs, saying he would end government funding to any religious group.

The White House and Kerry's opponents declined comment.

But the Republican National Committee blamed the sudden attack on the growing popularity of Kerry opponent, former Vermont Gov. Howard Dean.

``It seems like a very odd political strategy to attack the Catholic Church but Howard Dean is forcing Sen. Kerry to take a number of odd positions on a number of odd issues,'' said RNC spokeswoman Christine Iverson.


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections; US: Massachusetts
KEYWORDS: 2004; billpryor; catholic; catholiclist; catholicpoliticians; gaymarriage; johnkerry; johnpaulii; kerry; rayflinn; samesexmarriage; vatican
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To: All
I bet the New Bishop of Boston will have something to say to Kerry before it is all over.
81 posted on 08/03/2003 6:08:31 PM PDT by Saint Athanasius (How can there be too many children? That's like saying there are too many flowers - Mother Theresa)
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To: ninonitti
I am still wondering why the Demoncrats are so worried about courting the vote of 2 - 3% of the population? Do gays vote in hugely disproportinate numbers?
82 posted on 08/03/2003 6:11:56 PM PDT by WestPacSailor (Gun Control: two hand grip, front sight focus, breath, squeeze trigger...repeat as necessary.)
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To: ninonitti
Former Vatican Ambassador Raymond Flynn said Kerry was just wrong. ``I don't see it as crossing any line at all,'' Flynn said. ``Too many Catholic politicians want to have it both ways, they want the Catholic vote but then they go ahead and ignore Catholic teaching.''

I got to say for a Dem. Raymond Flynn is a pretty impressive guy. Wish he was on our side of the aisle.

83 posted on 08/03/2003 6:12:46 PM PDT by mware
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To: Saint Athanasius
This will go over well with Kerry's non-Catholic fans, and some Catholics, but not all.

Whining has become John Kerry's stock in trade, and will come to define him.

Which means he'll never be president.

84 posted on 08/03/2003 6:13:29 PM PDT by sinkspur ("Messina, Brad! Messina!" George C. Scott as "PATTON.")
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To: Radix
I predict a health issue.

I predict horseface's farrier will find a tumor at the back of his throat while floating his teeth with a rasp.

85 posted on 08/03/2003 6:16:59 PM PDT by Bluntpoint
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To: sinkspur
I agree... I think he has lost... and this his chance to appeal to the hard left, but in doing so he has blown his chances... we will see though.

Definitely this will raise a couple of eyebrows with Catholics though even those that are Cafeteria Catholics
86 posted on 08/03/2003 6:21:02 PM PDT by Saint Athanasius (How can there be too many children? That's like saying there are too many flowers - Mother Theresa)
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To: xm177e2
"In any case, what 'morality' is Pope JP2 a subscriber to? He said gay relationships are 'evil,' which is a word he refused to use to describe Saddam Hussein."

I'd call it a schizophrenic "morality."

87 posted on 08/03/2003 6:23:27 PM PDT by F16Fighter (The Main Event: Mark Levin vs. Senator Hitlery -- A Steel Cage Debate Spectacular On Pay Per View)
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To: doosee
Dear Dr. Kerry:

My little dog is my best friend. We have a close and trusting relationship. We will be together forever. Is it OK if I marry him?

My priest is a little reluctant to bless this union, but what do you think?

/sarcasm mode OFF/
88 posted on 08/03/2003 6:30:31 PM PDT by exDem from Miami
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To: ninonitti
Bluntly telling the Vatican to stay out of American politics, U.S. Sen. John F. Kerry yesterday said Pope John Paul II ``crossed the line'' by instructing pols to block legalization of gay marriage

Could it be that Kerry is in the closet ?

89 posted on 08/03/2003 6:34:43 PM PDT by ATOMIC_PUNK ("Treason" How can such a small word mean so little to so many ?)
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To: ninonitti
65 million reasons kerry can forget any chances of attaining anything but negative noteriety over this. I hope he filled up his bandaid box lately because he just shot off his foot;as well as his mouth on this one! WINK! WINK!
90 posted on 08/03/2003 6:44:39 PM PDT by winker
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To: Saint Athanasius
I bet the New Bishop of Boston will have something to say to Kerry before it is all over.

...and I bet that it will NOT be: "STFU, John."

But it might be close!

91 posted on 08/03/2003 7:18:50 PM PDT by ninenot (Torquemada: Due for Revival Soon!!!)
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To: ninenot
Forgive me Father, but that's funny!

92 posted on 08/03/2003 7:27:34 PM PDT by Saint Athanasius (How can there be too many children? That's like saying there are too many flowers - Mother Theresa)
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To: All
If anyone is interested, here is what the Vatican published on homosexual unions.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20030731_homosexual-unions_en.html
93 posted on 08/03/2003 7:29:31 PM PDT by Saint Athanasius (How can there be too many children? That's like saying there are too many flowers - Mother Theresa)
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To: Saint Athanasius
Bump.
94 posted on 08/03/2003 7:42:30 PM PDT by fatima (Once your a head stay a head.)
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To: ninonitti
``It is important not to have the church instructing politicians. That is an inappropriate crossing of the line in this country,'' Kerry said.

Why? Clearly Mr. Kerry's places some kind of ideology above the teachings of Christ's Church.

``President Kennedy drew that line very clearly in 1960 and I believe we need to stand up for that line today.''

It was a bad idea then, and it's a bad idea now.

The Democrat said political concerns are secondary to his moral outrage over Thursday's Vatican statement on gay marriage.

Moral outrage? What morality would that be? The "right to sodomy?"

``Our founding fathers separated church and state in America..."

Find it in the Constitution, dude. Many states had established churches. Only the federal government was prohibited from establishing a church.

Former Vatican Ambassador Raymond Flynn said Kerry was just wrong. ``I don't see it as crossing any line at all,'' Flynn said. ``Too many Catholic politicians want to have it both ways, they want the Catholic vote but then they go ahead and ignore Catholic teaching.''

Ray's had his share of problems, but overall he seems to be a good guy. He's the classic, old-school, Boston Irish Catholic Democrat.

95 posted on 08/04/2003 8:02:28 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Aquinasfan
Didn't St. Thomas Aquinas believe that the purpose of the state was to ensure the salvation of souls?
96 posted on 08/04/2003 8:20:13 AM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: Radix
He has been forced to take absurd positions in order to out left Dean. It won't work, and he knows that as well.

I agree. I don't see how this could possibly be politically advantageous for Sen. Kerrey. He's distancing himself from the electorate...and the Church. Not good.

97 posted on 08/04/2003 8:23:04 AM PDT by St.Chuck
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To: Snuffington
It would be even nicer to see them take some public actions in response to the public statements of certain Catholics who seem to think it's their right to instruct people about the Catholic faith in a way that defies the Church's actual authorities.

Yes. O'Malley should issue a statement and clear the air, otherwise the uncatechized flock may learn from a bad example.

98 posted on 08/04/2003 8:48:14 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: Willie Green
There are others, somewhat more moderate though not more consistent, who affirm that the morality of individuals is to be guided by the divine law, but not the morality of the State, for that in public affairs the commands of God may be passed over, and may be entirely disregarded in the framing of laws. Hence follows the fatal theory of the need of separation between Church and State. But the absurdity of such a position is manifest. Nature herself proclaims the necessity of the State providing means and opportunities whereby the community may be enabled to live properly, that is to say, according to the laws of God. For, since God is the source of all goodness and justice, it is absolutely ridiculous that the State should pay no attention to these laws or render them abortive by contrary enactments.

Pope Leo XIII bump

99 posted on 08/04/2003 8:53:31 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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To: St.Chuck
Didn't St. Thomas Aquinas believe that the purpose of the state was to ensure the salvation of souls?

That would give the State the same mission as the Church, and would thus make it indistinguishable from the Church. I think he taught that the object of the state is the promotion of the Common Good, which falls slightly lower than "the salvation of souls." Certainly, he would have held that the State should not do anything that would hinder the salvation of souls entrusted to it.

100 posted on 08/04/2003 9:00:57 AM PDT by Aquinasfan (Isaiah 22:22, Rev 3:7, Mat 16:19)
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