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Conservatives "prepared to respond" if Episcopal Church OK's gay unions
Episcopal News Service ^ | July 24, 03 | Jan Nunley

Posted on 07/27/2003 6:49:14 PM PDT by churchillbuff

Group ‘prepared to respond' if General Convention affirms Robinson, blessing rite

by Jan Nunley (ENS) A group of 62 Anglicans and Episcopalians, including some primates and bishops of the Anglican Communion, held a press conference July 23 to announce that they are "prepared to respond" if the Episcopal Church's General Convention either confirms the election of the Rev. Gene Robinson as Bishop of New Hampshire or directs the Standing Commission on Liturgy and Music to prepare blessing rites for couples living in committed relationships outside marriage. The convention begins July 30 in Minneapolis, Minnesota.

The group gathered in secret at Truro Episcopal Church in Fairfax, Virginia, for two days to craft their statement. "The proposed actions by General Convention…would shatter the church," the statement said. "The American bishops at this meeting have prayed, planned and are prepared to respond as faithful members of the Anglican Communion. Should these events occur, the majority of the Primates anticipate convening an extraordinary meeting at which they too will respond to the actions of General Convention."

Element of surprise

But under questioning by reporters, the group refused to divulge any specific plans. "Action will happen," said Archbishop Peter Akinola of the Church of Nigeria. Another spokesman for the group, the Rev. Kendall Harmon, canon theologian for the Diocese of South Carolina, explained, "We are trying to preserve an element of surprise. That is part of the strategy here."

Asked if it will make a difference if, say, Robinson were confirmed but the liturgy resolution failed, Akinola said, "No. Either one will cause a split. They are inextricably linked."

Plea for mutual accountability

On the same day the statement was released, Archbishop of Canterbury Rowan Williams sent a letter to Anglican primates asking them to maintain "mutual accountability," not just on matters of sexuality but on issues such as lay presidency at the Eucharist and "alternative episcopal oversight" for dissenting parishes.

"We do not have a central executive authority in our Communion; this means we are quite vulnerable in times of deep disagreement, and need more than ever to pay attention to one another," Williams wrote. "… This is not to recommend a refusal to face circumstances or to avoid conflict at all costs. It is to acknowledge that who we are as Christians is connected to the worldwide fellowship to which we belong. Within a living Communion, we should never find ourselves in the position of saying, or seeming to say, to each other, ‘[I have no need of you' (I Cor. 12.21)."

Claiming a majority

The statement claimed that the signers represent "a majority of the world's 75 million Anglicans." Exact numbers are hard to come by, but according to the Anglican Communion Secretariat's figures, the seven primates listed represent a little more than 20 million members out of 76,650,449 worldwide -- 26 percent of the total.

When asked how many primates agreed with the group, Akinola responded, "Most primates are here in spirit. We know the mind of a good number of primates." He would only confirm being in contact with "6 or 7" of the primates.

Most of the names on the list are familiar as conservative activists in the Episcopal Church and the Anglican Communion. Many have signed previous statements declaring their discontent with moves towards the full inclusion of homosexuals in the Episcopal Church, and are members or officers of advocacy groups such as the American Anglican Council, Forward in Faith/North America, and the Institute for Religion and Democracy.

Ten of the 15 American bishops are "bishops with jurisdiction," eligible to vote on Robinson's consecration. Their dioceses represent 185,766 communicants, some 9% of the American church. The clergy listed represent congregations with a combined average attendance of approximately 10,500 members.

A stream of statements

The Truro statement follows an "Open Letter to the Concerned Primates of the Anglican Communion," issued July 15 by 24 Episcopal Church bishops, who declared themselves to be in a state of "impaired communion," or broken relationship, with the Canadian Diocese of New Westminster, which has authorized liturgies for blessing same-sex partnerships. They also committed to commit to "common responses" to what they described as "the deteriorating situation within the Episcopal Church" over homosexuality.

In early June, fourteen of the 38 Anglican primates charged that "by deliberately and intentionally abandoning the established Anglican consensus, [the bishop of New Westminster] placed himself and his diocese in an automatic state of impaired communion with the majority within the Anglican Communion."

Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold wrote to the primates July 22, asking for their understanding of the difference in context between their provinces and the American church over the understanding of human sexuality. "Over these last five years I have continually reminded our church that we are part of a larger reality called the Anglican Communion, and that what we do locally has ramifications both positive and negative in other parts of the world," Griswold said. "At the same time I am mindful that each of us has to interpret the gospel in our own context and within the particular reality of our own Province; there is no such thing as a neutral reading of Scripture. While we all accept the authority of Scripture, we interpret various passages in different ways."

At least one African primate has already come out publicly against the Truro statement. "I believe that it is wrong and contrary to our Anglican Tradition and understanding of Canon Law to presume to interfere in the affairs of another Province," said Archbishop Njongonkulu Ndungane of South Africa. "Such actions are a major threat to the fabric of our Communion. Let us respect the integrity of each Province.

"It would be profoundly inappropriate for any Province or any group of Provinces to presume to take on a role which properly belongs to the See of Canterbury, and with the whole Communion acting with the See of Canterbury."

--The Rev. Jan Nunley is deputy director of Episcopal News Service. Additional material for this story was provided by Stratton Edwards of the Office of Government Relations.


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Front Page News; US: New Hampshire; US: Virginia
KEYWORDS: catholiclist; christianity; episcopal; fairfax; generalconvention; homosexualagenda; homosexualbisop; homosexuality; rowanwilliams; schism; truro
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1 posted on 07/27/2003 6:49:15 PM PDT by churchillbuff
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To: churchillbuff
Action will happen

Oh, I think there is already too much action going on.

2 posted on 07/27/2003 6:52:58 PM PDT by PFKEY
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To: churchillbuff
Just get the heck out of that church. Go somewhere that preaches what you believe.

That's what will send the loudest message, and have the greatest effect. No parishoners, no money. No money, no church.

Voila' problem solved.
3 posted on 07/27/2003 6:59:10 PM PDT by Bullish
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To: churchillbuff
A group of 62 Anglicans and Episcopalians... held a press conference July 23 to announce that they are "prepared to respond" ...

RESPOND?!?

Okay, here comes the "conservative" response, brace yourselves, it's a looloo...

Drum roll, please...

THE RESPONSE IS...

hello?

anyone there?

(crickets)

There you have it, the typical conservative response.

Anyone dispute that?

4 posted on 07/27/2003 6:59:49 PM PDT by Old Sarge (Serving You - on Operation Noble Eagle!)
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To: churchillbuff
Subject: A STATEMENT FROM THE GATHERING OF WORLDWIDE ANGLICAN MAINSTREAM LEADERS


FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE -- JULY 23, 2003


Contact: Bruce Mason

American Anglican Council

703-967-2970

202-296-5360

bmason@americananglican.org


A STATEMENT FROM THE GATHERING OF WORLDWIDE ANGLICAN MAINSTREAM LEADERS


(The following statement was issued by an unprecedented gathering of worldwide Anglican mainstream leaders who met from Tuesday, July 22 - Wednesday, July 23, 2003 at Truro Episcopal Church, Fairfax, VA.)


We are mainstream Anglican leaders from Provinces around the world comprising a majority of the world's 75 million Anglicans.


We have gathered on the eve of the General Convention of the Episcopal Church out of profound love for the church and a deep concern for the constitutional crisis that confronts us.


The proposed actions by General Convention to confirm a non-celibate homosexual as a bishop of this Communion or to approve the creation of liturgies for the blessing of relationships outside of marriage would shatter the church.


Such unconstitutional actions by the Episcopal Church would:


-- Separate it from historic Christian faith and teaching,

-- Alienate it from the fellowship and accountability of the worldwide Anglican family, and

-- Confuse the witness of the Church to the love and joy of Christian marriage.


In response to this crisis, we reaffirm our commitment to:


-- The teaching of the historic Christian Church,

-- Our fellowship with sisters and brothers in the global Anglican family,

and

-- The joyful proclamation of Christ's love for the Church as reflected in the sacrament of marriage.


The proposed actions will precipitate a dramatic realignment of the Church.

The American bishops at this meeting have prayed, planned and are prepared respond as faithful members of the Anglican Communion.


Should these events occur, the majority of the Primates anticipate convening an extraordinary meeting at which they too will respond to the actions of General Convention.

5 posted on 07/27/2003 7:01:10 PM PDT by ahadams2 (Anglicanism: the next reformation is beginning NOW)
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To: churchillbuff
If the bishop-elect is approved, or the same-sex union liturgy is called for, the church will never again be able to speak prophetically about any issue dealing with morality.

To approve of either is to negate the clear teaching of Scripture, to undermine its authority regarding moral issues, and to nullify its teachings.

This is truly a critical time - the death knell of the Anglical Communion is waiting to be sounded.

6 posted on 07/27/2003 7:04:51 PM PDT by LiteKeeper
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To: churchillbuff
If their primates and bishops are anything like the monks in their churches in southern Wi
their sodomite problem is nothing new
7 posted on 07/27/2003 7:04:58 PM PDT by joesnuffy (Moderate Islam Is For Dilettantes)
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To: ahadams2
I hope your tag line is correct; however, we've put up with the "little" things like the Hymnal change and the "peace" and the "major" things like a politicized episcopate and the change in the Book of Common Prayer, especially it's odious Rite II (I know, that battle was over 20 years ago). Also, the ordination of women.

Why do you think this Church can reform? Isn't it exactly where the majority in the United States want it, or at least moving in that direction?

8 posted on 07/27/2003 7:15:37 PM PDT by jammer
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To: BlackElk
The gay assault on other Christian sects continues... *ping*
9 posted on 07/27/2003 7:18:55 PM PDT by fieldmarshaldj (~Remember, it's not sporting to fire at RINO until charging~)
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To: Bullish
I used to be a Catholic, then I read a Bible, It was clear to me that no Church Heirachy can trump the word of God. so I simply left, and never returned.
10 posted on 07/27/2003 7:19:17 PM PDT by BOOTSTICK
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To: BOOTSTICK
It's unlikely you understood your Catholic faith.
11 posted on 07/27/2003 7:23:43 PM PDT by Incorrigible
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To: Bullish
The problem will be solved by the conservative Bishops represented at this meeting. I think their response will be to take their Dioceses and any churches in their Dioceses who wish to join them and become members of the Anglican Mission in America, leaving the Episcopal Church USA to die on the vine with all the unbelievers in their midst. The Anglican Mission in America is an outreach of the Anglican Church in Nigeria and has been ordaining conservative priests and consecrating Bishops in America for several years under its' guidance and leadership. Many conservative parishes have already left the Episcopal Church USA in this manner but have found problems with their property, as usually they have been forced to sign thier local church buildings and contents over to the Diocese. The ECUSA has been anticipating this conservative withdrawal for years, ever since the fight about the ordination of women. Now the conservatives have a viable alternative to giving up the church and liturgy they love. They will now be able to worship without the homosexual and "inclusive" agenda being shoved down their throats.
That's my anticiapation of what the response will be if they are pushed to it after the vote.
12 posted on 07/27/2003 7:24:56 PM PDT by tinamina
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To: BOOTSTICK
The problem with many Protestant churches is not in their official doctrine, though, as it is in the case of the Roman church from which you came out. In many, the official positions are godly; it is the individual dissenters that flaunt that official doctrine or attempt to subvert it who become the problems. This is the case with the Episcopal Church on this issue.

Many people, most of them older, have too much of a link to these churches to just abandon them without a fight. It's why I stay United Methodist--even though I'm in my 20s (for some strange reason, most younger generations have a very evident lack of loyalty to any particular denominational institution and just come and go with whatever strikes their fancy) and often wonder why I'm not a Free Methodist.

13 posted on 07/27/2003 7:31:50 PM PDT by The Grammarian
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To: LiteKeeper
The death knell of the Anglican Communion is far from being sounded. The death knell is for the Episcopal Church USA. The Anglican Church of Nigeria has sent missionaries to the USA to help faithful Anglicans be able to continue in their faith outside the ECUSA! I personally know of whole churches and priests who have joined this Anglican Mission in America to flee the abomination of the ECUSA.
14 posted on 07/27/2003 7:33:51 PM PDT by tinamina
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To: LiteKeeper
to negate the clear teaching of Scripture, to undermine its authority regarding moral issues, and to nullify its teachings.

You are quite correct, but the protest statement above in post 5 is quite instructive: nowhere is Scripture mentioned or even alluded to faintly. The only appeal is to "The teaching of the historic Christian Church..."

It is, of course, unfair of me to single out one document and leap to the conclusion that the seeds of this apostasy are apparent therein, simply because of this omission. But ask yourself: if you were defending such an important position, wouldn't you take great pains not merely to point to Scripture but also to quote from it? The absence of anything at all is, I suggest, determinative.

15 posted on 07/27/2003 7:37:04 PM PDT by Hebrews 11:6 (Look it up!)
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To: churchillbuff
Y'know... If this counter-cultural assault continues, the only response left to the conservative opposition will be bullets and flames.

These are civil-war issues, like abortion, taxes and gun rights.

Don't they realize this?

(NOTE: the above comments are in no way a threat or incitement to violence. It is merely an observation based on my study of history. Keep your panties on...)

16 posted on 07/27/2003 7:42:15 PM PDT by Cogadh na Sith (The Guns of Brixton)
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To: jammer
okay, I have to be honest about the fact that I personally like Rite II, but that's because I'm Charismatic and it's an easier liturgy to do in a Charismatic manner. Oh and also because it's somewhat similar in parts to the Lutheran liturgy with which I grew up. I have friends from both the non-Charismatic Evangelical side of the aisle and the Anglo-Catholic side of the aisle (yep a lot of their traditionalists aren't happy either) who detest it and I understand why. Even though for me, both the 1928 liturgy and the 1662 liturgy seem to demonstrate a certain, uh, negotiated character that demonstrates to someone with some familiarity with liturgical development, that they were decidedly designed by committee, regardless of the Holy Spirit's action in their regards.

All that being said (and realizing I just put 90 percent of non-Anglican readers to sleep!:-)) while, barring a Major Miracle, ECUSA itself will not reform, the simple fact is that the majority of the Anglican Communion is in the 2/3rds world, which with the exception of the heretical leadership in South Africa, are staunchly Conservative. I would expect to see the various homosexual agenda items pass at GC, though by narrower margin than some may expect, due to the 'corporatists' suddenly realizing that there are conservatives who will not ever 'go along to get along' and that this really is the breaking point.

Following passage of EITHER the approval of the 'consecration' of that homosexual as bishop of N.H. OR of the 'liturgy for blessing committed relationships outside of marriage' we'll initially see both the Primates of a number of provinces declare themselves in impaired communion with N.H.; and in the case of the 'liturgy' impaired communion with all of ECUSA. After that I expect to see at least some of the conservative ECUSA bishops (i.e. those who signed the statement from Truro) declare something similar. This will lead to a shaking-out with ECUSA as the orthodox parishes will have to leave their buildings and such behind, but I expect to see a new province formed in North America, at least the beginnings of which will be seen by next summer.

And in the same manner as all the other apostate portions of the mainline denominations, ECUSA will sink slowly into oblivion as it's supporters die off, and they are unable to recruit enough gullible fools to replace them.
17 posted on 07/27/2003 7:43:15 PM PDT by ahadams2 (Anglicanism: the next reformation is beginning NOW)
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To: Prof Engineer
church politics ping
18 posted on 07/27/2003 7:45:14 PM PDT by msdrby (Go Navy!)
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To: The Grammarian
Vowing to fight is admirable but futile. As long as they're part of the NCC, it is impossible to fix. They must be allowed to wither and die.

There's hope. Some congregations of the ELCA are leaving. They have formed a new group called "Word Alone".

19 posted on 07/27/2003 7:52:49 PM PDT by Conservativegreatgrandma
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To: jammer
and also:

A NEW CANTERBURY IN NIGERIA?

Commentary

By David W. Virtue

The muscle flexing Primate of Nigeria, Archbishop Peter Akinola, the leader of the world's largest province in the Anglican Communion with nearly 18 million Anglicans, is taking on the church's Western revisionist flank with a vengeance.

What he is saying and doing might lead one to think that he is setting up the Global South bishops to take on the new Affirming Catholic Archbishop of Canterbury and, in the process, ditch him and all those Western revisionist bishops who are heretical on faith and morals, in order to establish a New World Anglican Order.

Impossible you say? Consider the following.

His first act, earlier this year, was to take his 81 bishops and 10 archbishops and sever communion with the Bishop and Diocese of New Westminster because of the actions of Michael Ingham for promoting, proposing and then allowing rites for same-sex blessings.

This unprecedented step means that the Province of Nigeria no longer considers the Diocese or Bishop of New Westminster, or its ordained clergy, to be part of the worldwide Anglican Communion.

In a statement issued May 30th, the Nigerian Primate said "that the Church's failure to ensure strict compliance with resolutions duty passed at our (Primates) meetings clearly shows that Bishop Ingham and his diocese see no value in being accountable to anybody."

He then accused the bishop, and by association the vast number of western bishops of a "new imperialism."

Thems are fighting words.

"It is significant," he said, "that those dioceses most tempted to indulge themselves with unilateral actions, taken without consulting the wider Communion, seem so often to be among those materially most advantaged and to be in the global north ... Do we not see here, in the ready assertion of superior wisdom, a new imperialism?"

He called the action of New Westminster "a flagrant disregard for the Anglican Communion and what the vast majority of it stands for".

No other Primate has been nearly as outspoken as Peter Akinola is. The Primates Pastoral Letter was lukewarm by comparison. The letter said, "it is through liturgy that we express what we believe, and that there is no theological consensus about same sex unions. Therefore, we as a body cannot support the authorization of such rites."

The Nigerian Primate, on the other hand, called Ingham's actions a "new imperialism." We have never heard talk like that before. It is reminiscent of the days of the British and French colonization of Africa and the call by those African nations for their colonizers to be gone. More fighting words.

But Akinola didn't stop there.

When Presiding Bishop Frank Griswold paid a visit to Nigeria to practice his pluriform charm on the Nigerian Church it did not go down well, despite the PR puffery from 815, ECUSA's national headquarters in New York. Barbara Braver put the best spin on it she could, but it fell flat. In their hearts the Nigerians knew Griswold, and they themselves, were not reading off the same page.

The Nigerian African bishops were unfailingly polite, but they weren't buying Frank's Fractal views. Griswold pitched himself as an Anglo-Catholic, which is a lie, he is an Affirming Catholic, quite another designation altogether, and his theology did not sit well with the
Biblically orthodox bishops of that populace land.

Just understanding what the hell Frank is talking about with his mystic pagan pluriform ecstatic notions, panentheism, Sufi Dumi and pro-sodomite views, was enough to give the Nigerian bishops apoplectic fits. They were glad to see his plane lift off the ground and head back
to New York City. They then shrugged their shoulders and went right back to converting Muslims, pagans, animists and nominal Christians to Jesus.

In July, the Nigerian Archbishop went on the offensive again and wrote to the Archbishop of Canterbury, threatening to sever ties with ANY part of the Anglican Church that elects a gay bishop - including the Church of England!

Akinola ratcheted up the pain once again, this time even more. He was, and is, prepared to take on Rowan Williams personally and the Church of England. And the result of his pressure, and those of others, resulted in Williams deep-sixing Jeffrey John.

In an encyclical sent out to his Nigerian Church, Archbishop Akinola condemned the actions of Bishop Ingham in New Westminster. He also blasted the Diocese of New Hampshire calling it an "heretical move" in their election of Canon Gene Robinson as bishop in the diocese of New
Hampshire. He had this to say:
"We are mindful of the backlash this strong stand can engender from the rich Churches in Europe, America and Canada, who have long used their wealth to intimidate the financially weak Churches in Africa. Our boldness in condemning the spiritual bankruptcy of these Churches must
be matched by our refusal to receive financial help from them." He urged that his Church become self-reliant, "as a matter of urgency".

This time Akinola took on a truly sacred Western cow: Money.
He stated what Virtuosity has been saying for years, that money, pots of it from ECUSA, the Anglican Consultative Council, individual wealthy liberal dioceses and parishes, as well as Trinity Wall Street is being used to manipulate Third World bishops, and win their support for the West's pansexual and other liberal views.

Other African bishops have steadfastly refused to be drawn on whether or not they might follow Nigeria's lead; or what might lead them to break communion; and even what "breaking communion" means, but it is very clear that Akinola does have a pretty clear fix on what it all
means, and is now prepared to say so.

"Nigeria's stance was an extraordinary one, and sent a massive signal which must be taken with great seriousness," said Sydney Archbishop Dr.Peter Jensen, the leading biblically orthodox cleric in Australia. "The
storm that has arisen is an indication that these are matters are of an even greater fundamental significance than the ordination of women. You can't simply batten down the hatches."

It is Akinola then, more than any other Primate, who has gone on the offensive, publicly, with regard to Western revisionist thinking and the bishops that support it.

And this was the same archbishop who was accorded accolades like a returning Caesar by the Bishop of New York and offered the Archbishop's throne in the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in New York.

Not any more. Such seduction tactics are now long gone, and Akinola will not be so seduced again.

Akinola has hit on a really touchy nerve by mentioning money. While numerically poor, the West is financially rich with dead men's money.
Global South Anglicans, on the other hand, are numerically rich and financially poor, and money is being used to manipulate the poorer Primates, and that comes with a price - conformity or silence regarding ECUSA's less than orthodox views on faith and morals.

There is a price for everything and sometimes it is silence, and we all know that silence equals acquiescence.

Consider what has been going on in Mexico for the last dozen years. Millions of dollars have been squandered by the Primate and one of his bishops, with nary a soul saved, and most of the money has come from The Episcopal Church. The question must be asked, what other dioceses
and provinces are so beholden to ECUSA's largess?

And we all know that ECUSA never asks for an accounting, that is considered de rigeur at the least, and racist at worst. Don't ask, don't tell, but by God you had better vote with us. While ECUSA may not ask for an accounting for money that is wasted, they do expect recipients not to challenge the pro-sodomite party line if they want to
keep getting the money.

Just ask the Brazilians who have been dipping into the same theological and financial ECUSA pot lo these many years, and voting for sodomy (see the Rio Declaration) to appease its northern paymasters.

ECUSA has been footing most of the annual Primates meeting bills wherever they gather. Add to that the monies raised by Canon John Peterson the devious general secretary of the Anglican Consultative Council and you have a financial pincer movement that is hard to beat or outflank. Toss in a chunk of Trinity Wall Street's millions (the richest church in the world) and baby we have you by the 'you know
whats.'

But Akinola has now punctured, if not burst that financial bubble. He has told the West to take their money and blow it out their noses.

He has called for an Endowment to be set up in Africa for African Primates and bishops. "This means that we must become self-reliant as a matter of urgency so that we will not only meet our own needs locally, but also those of our poor African brethren who have long depended on handouts from the rich Churches of the western world."

It is clear he plans not to be beholden to Western money any further and their bankrupt theology that goes with it. Clearly his 81 bishops and 10 Archbishops won't be doing the Circle Dance of Dispossession to clear out residual bad karma about ECUSA any time soon.

The acceptance of ECUSA's money has been too high a price to pay; so high, in fact, that it has compromised gospel witness.

So the Nigerian Primate has taken the lead and is finally calling a spade a spade. There is no getting around the force and impact of his words.

All it would take is for the Nigerian Primate to call together all the African archbishops and bishops (with the one exception - Southern Africa), notify Primate Greg Venables (Southern Cone) and Yong Ping Chung (Southeast Asia) and make the following decree.

"We, the vast orthodox majority of the Anglican Communion find ourselves in broken communion with the Archbishop of Canterbury, ECUSA, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. We will no longer walk with them. They are not of the one true faith. As of now we have formed a new Anglican Communion that represents more than 90 percent of all
Anglicans worldwide and we call upon those faithful orthodox dioceses within revisionist provinces to join with us."

The new center of world Anglicanism would immediately shift from Lambeth/Canterbury to Abuja/Lagos.

You find that impossible?

May I remind you that a single guilt-ridden monk, knowing himself guilty before an absolutely righteous God, left Germany and journeyed to Rome over 500 years ago and saw the spiritual and moral corruption of his church and returned home to nail 95 theses to a cathedral door.
We are still living with the impact of his actions half a millennium later.

And let us not forget this single most glaring truth; that the present make-up of the Anglican Communion looks overwhelming more like Peter Akinola than Rowan Williams, and it has a theology to make churches grow, which the present Archbishop of Canterbury and Western revisionist clerics do not have.


NOTE: If you are not receiving this from VIRTUOSITY, America's largest Evangelical and orthodox Episcopal/Anglican Online News Service, then you may subscribe FREE by going to: http://www.virtuosityonline.org.
VIRTUOSITY is read by more than 80,000 readers in 38 countries. This story is copyrighted but may be forwarded electronically with reference to VIRTUOSITY and the author. No changes are permitted in the text.
20 posted on 07/27/2003 8:07:03 PM PDT by ahadams2 (Anglicanism: the next reformation is beginning NOW)
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