[BushCountry]

Just would like some input from the experts @ Freerepublic. Thank you in advance.

[Atlas Sneezed]

"Electives (Degree - 2 courses) - Students are required to take a 3-credit-hour humanities/fine arts course and a 3-credit-hour social/behavioral science course. For once, I am at a loss for words. These courses are suppose to make the IT professional a well-rounded individual. I would like to find a more practical use for these 6 credit hours. Any suggestions?"

One focus here could be on typography, graphic design, human factors of perception, marketing psychology, and such factors relevant to the websites that many IT-hacks inevitably design. Basically, an artsy-fartsy creative web-design course.

[dfwgator]

For those who can't afford to go back to school, or have already "been there, done that", I have started a list of books I think everyone in IT should have in their technical library, feel free to add your own.

1. Design Patterns (The Gang of Four Book)
2. Refactoring - Fowler
3. Mythical Man-Month - Brooks
4. Professional XML
5. Patterns of Enterprise Software Architecture - Fowler
6. Beyond Software Architecure - Hohmann
7. Crossing the Chasm - Moore
8. The Cathedral and the Bazaar - Raymond
9. The Design of Everyday Things - Norman
10. The Peopleware Papers - Constantine

[Semper Paratus]

I would also include a madatory course in English Composition.

[gunnedah]

Fact is as long as the Democrats can keep the nation divided and for the most part uneducated they can do as they please.
Their obstructionism is killing America and the legal system aids them.
America is much closer to a dictatorship than most believe. If the liberals ever have firm control of the Supreme Court it will happen.

[Valpal1]

How about we make the fine arts course focuse on public domain literature, blogging and correct copyright usage.

The science course could be on marketing psychology.

[Hodar]

Electives (Degree - 2 courses) - Students are required to take a 3-credit-hour humanities/fine arts course and a 3-credit-hour social/behavioral science course. For once, I am at a loss for words. These courses are suppose to make the IT professional a well-rounded individual. I would like to find a more practical use for these 6 credit hours. Any suggestions?

These are the type of courses that just make life miserable, and discourage potentially great engineers from going through the non-sense. Why not say the truth " these courses will NOT make you a better person, they are extortion to help fund educators/courses that have no viable purpose at an institution of higher education"

Forcing a person to take course on morals and ethics does not make a moral or ethical person. It simply is a extortion of money from a trapped student, directly into the coffers of the department in which the student must donate. The college exists to sell it's product (education) to the customer (student). The student buys the skills he/she needs to pursue the career of choice. To force a student to take unrelated courses makes as much sense as forcing a person to buy a car and a Balsa wood entertainment center (Balsa entertainment centers just aren't selling like the Liberals would like to see them sold; so they will be a conditional requirement for purchasing a car).

[Ramius]

I have about a dozen people in my IT group. I hired about half of them. Only one of my people has a formal education in computer science. In fact not only do I not give much weight to a CS degree, in many cases it has been my reason to toss out a resume from the pile.

I have one with a masters in english. One with a BA in classics/latin, one with a BA in Lit, and a few with no BA/BS at all but a great record of experience. I have a BA in accounting.

The hardest thing to find is IT staff that are good with people. Lots of people are good with machines, but rarer is the person who is good with machines AND good with people. IT is far more about dealing with users than it is about dealing with machines. I tell them "First: you fix the user, THEN you can move on to fix the machine."

[HennepinPrisoner]

I recommend courses on Indian Culture and Indian Political Science. And maybe a non-credit course on procedures to immigrate to India.

[spodefly]

Where are your African-American History, and Womyn's Studies courses? What about "Sensitivity in a Diverse, Multicultural World"? Without proper grounding, your students will be loose cannons ...

[Chad Fairbanks]

Computer programming and problem solving. This course should be based on html, html help, java script, and SQL.

No. A course such as that should avoid language-specific instruction. In all reality, what language you use would depend on what you seek to accomplish. A course such as this should introduce would-be, or existing, programmers to programming methodologies that work, rather than teaching a specific langauge... just my opinion, of course...

[dr_who_2]

This course should be based on html, html help, java script, and SQL.

Bwahahahaha!....

[VOA]

bump

[tophat9000]

Hey BushCountry

First just to get an idea where your coming from, what your current background in IT?

I must say your opening statement about Introduction to computers and computing Basically, I am saying that these programs should skip 90% of what they teach about the internal operation of the computer.....I disagree strongly with ...

There needs to improved training of the fundamentals

I been in this field since 1980 and worked a wide range of areas but primarily as a field service engineer

My primary bitch is getting people who can’t troubleshoot a problem because they have no understanding of the basics

All they know is the one little box they have been trained on ... that the world too them

[Chad Fairbanks]

Database programming

Start out with Relational Algebra, from whence the concept of 'Relational Databases' derives from. Once they have a firm grasp of that, move on to more database-related instructions... again, just my opinion...

[LurkedLongEnough]

Instruction about popular utilities to help system admins might be useful.

[LibertyAndJusticeForAll]

I just assumed that the disservice you would be referring to would be the fact that IT jobs for Americans are disappearing. As a s/w engineer (not IT) I would suggest that anyone considering IT or any high-tech career should first look at the job market.
There are numerous threads on freerepublic regarding the factors involved in the growing trend to offshore and hire H1B and L1 visa workers. Not that IT is the only sector being hit. Any American who works behind a desk could be unemployed very soon according to one corporate exec.

[Starboard]

A little "input" from someone who works in the IT field and taught AA level students...

1. I realize this is a composite description, but the course on "Operating systems concepts; database concepts and applications" is a mixed bag of topics, not to mention the addition of "connectivity issues, Security, Internet, LAN, WAN, and Terminal Services." App development and DB concepts should be separate courses IMO.

2. I'm confused by the combination of "Database programming; installation and maintenance of computer hardware." These are really unrelated topics.

3. The "Systems analysis and design" course correctly addresses topology issues (internal structured cabling, network communications technologies, supporting remote users, firewalls, routers, gateways, and designing a secure system) but this brief descriptiondoes not apprear to provide a good foundation for understanding other system components.

4. It is essential that students get exposure to data communications. I would make that a separate course.

[SlickWillard]

Math (Degree - 1 course) - Survey of topics including sets, logic, probability, statistics, matrices, mathematical systems, geometry, topology, mathematics of finance, and modeling. Math course topics should relate to Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) and cost benefit analysts of everything from increase network bandwidth to speeding up PC by adding memory. In other words, practical math for the network and system administrators.

Are you joking? You've just described about ten years worth of study at the undergraduate/graduate/math/economics/accounting/MBA/PhD level.

I've taught systems administration and programming at the community college level, and, quite frankly, my opinion is that it's an utter and complete waste of time. The overwhelming factor in determining a person's ability to succeed in IT is their IQ, and you have no control over that whatsoever. Other personal qualities, such as perseverance, or sobriety, are important, but they're trumped by IQ.

As a general rule of thumb: The average recipient of a master's or PhD in theoretical computer science is at best capable of earning a living as a programmer, NOT as a researcher. The average recipient of a bachelor's in computer science is at best capable of earning a living as a systems administrator, NOT as a programmer. The average recipient of an associate's in applied computer science is at best capable of earning a living as a cabling monkey, although it's more likely that he'll end up as a janitor or a nightwatchman.

If a person has the IQ [and the perseverance and the sobriety] sufficient to earn a living as a programmer, he can [and will] go down to Barnes & Noble, buy a $29.99 "Teach Yourself in X Days" monograph, and teach himself.

PS: All programming courses should start with some sort of a "computer math" pre-requisite. If a prospective student can't tell you that e.g. a 32 bit integer is capable of holding 2³² values, which range from -2³¹ to [2³¹ - 1], and that e.g.

[2³¹ - 1] + 1 = -2³¹

then they should be expelled from the course before it begins.

[The Great RJ]

I teach economics in a technical college that offers associate level IT traing and I also have an undergraduate certificate in web design. Bravo for the suggestion of requiring English composition and Literature. Many of my colleagues have the same reservations about training these students well technically, but not giving them at least some background in liberal arts.

I'd also throw in some type of serious art appreciation class--not just looking at art works and listening to music, but one that ephasizes pleasing design. I see too many web sites that are designed by tech heads, but lack any sense of design, ease of use or even logical organization.

[Lazamataz]

Training is far less important than experience.