Unhappy with U.S., some think Canada offers better future

Houston Chronicle ^ | July 26, 2003 | AP

[Cincinatus' Wife]

NEW YORK -- For all they share economically and culturally, Canada and the United States are increasingly at odds on basic social policies -- to the point that at least a few discontented Americans are planning to move north and try their neighbors' way of life.

A husband and wife in Minnesota, a college student in Georgia, a young executive in New York. Though each has distinct motives for packing up, they agree the United States is growing too conservative and believe Canada offers a more inclusive, less selfish society.

"For me, it's a no-brainer," said Mollie Ingebrand, a puppeteer from Minneapolis who plans to go to Vancouver with her lawyer husband and 2-year-old son.

"It's the most amazing opportunity I can imagine. To live in a society where there are different priorities in caring for your fellow citizens."

For decades, even while nurturing close ties with the United States, Canadians have often chosen a different path -- establishing universal health care, maintaining ties with Cuba, imposing tough gun control laws. Two current Canadian initiatives, to decriminalize marijuana and legalize same-sex marriage, have pleased many liberals in the United States and irked conservatives.

New York executive Daniel Hanley, 31, was arranging a move for himself and his partner, Tony, long before the Canadian announcement about same-sex marriage. But the timing delights him; he and Tony now hope to marry in front of their families after they emigrate to British Columbia.

"Canada has an opportunity to define itself as a leader," Hanley said. "In some ways, it's now closer to American ideals than America is."

Thomas Hodges, a computer systems major at Georgia State University, said his dismay with American politics started him thinking last year about going abroad. He recently wrote an article in a campus journal titled, "Why I Am Moving To Canada."

"I'm thinking about Toronto, though I hear it's cold up there," Hodges, a lifelong Southerner, said in a telephone interview.

Hodges, 21, complained about a "neo-conservative shift" in the United States and praised Canada's approach to health care and education.

"The U.S. educational system is unfair -- you have to live in certain areas to go to good schools," he said.

Rene Mercier, spokesman for Canada's immigration department, said any upsurge in U.S.-to-Canada immigration based on current political developments won't be detectable for a few years, because of the time required to process residency applications.

During the Vietnam War, U.S. emigration to Canada surged as thousands of young men, often accompanied by wives or girlfriends, moved to avoid the draft.

But every year since 1977, more Canadians have emigrated to the United States than vice versa -- the 2001 figures were 5,894 Americans moving north, 30,203 Canadians moving south.

Mollie Ingebrand, 34, said she has felt an affinity with Canada for many years, fueled partly by respect for its health care system. Her doubts about the United States go back even further, to a childhood spent with liberal parents in a relatively conservative part of Ohio.

"In school I was always told this is the best country on earth, and everyone else wants to be American, and that never really rang true to me," she said. "As I got older, it occurred to me there were other choices."

Ingebrand says some of her friends -- people who share her left-of-center views -- argue that she should stay at home to battle for changes here.

"I've been there and done that," she said. "I don't want to stay and fight anymore. I can have that bittersweet love for my country from somewhere else."

[LibKill]

I would be willing to trade Canada 2 liberals for 1 conservative. Can't get more generous than that.

[X-USAF]

Failed delivery. No mailbox by that name.

[scriblett]

The main reason more Canadians don't head south permanently, is the affordability of health care (or lack of it, and insurance etc.) If it were not for that, I'd be living in Florida now. (or anywhere warm)

You can only head south for medical treatment if you can afford it. I've used that argument often to back up the need for some private clinics here. I should be able to spend my money any way I choose, on health care if necessary.

Having said that, surely you must have some sympathy for low income earners with no health insurance who can't afford to be treated. I have to believe, even though I'm conservative, that basic health care is a right, as is education up to grade 12.
I'm not suggesting that illegal immigrants or welfare bums be given transplants etc. but ALL people, should be able to get some basic level of care - and prescriptions should be subsidized somewhat, for low income earners.

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

This doesn't take away your freedoms and right to make a million if you can. cheers

[timestax]

For me, it's a no-brainer," said Mollie

What brain....wait till she gets a view of Toronto, and it's surroundings....she'll be running back to USA pronto!!

[Tijeras_Slim]

Failed delivery. No mailbox by that name.

This article was posted last week too. Some FReeping may have occured. Of course, any lingering doubts puppet-lady may have had about "meenies" in the USA have been confirmed. :)

[tictoc]

Love it!

For good measure, jump up and down the liburl's rib cage a few times.

[OldPossum]

Mollie Ingebrand, 34, said she has felt an affinity with Canada for many years, fueled partly by respect for its health care system. Her doubts about the United States go back even further, to a childhood spent with liberal parents in a relatively conservative part of Ohio... "As I got older, it occurred to me there were other choices."

It sure did take her a long time to realize that there are no chains attached to American citizens to keep them here, but then again it appears that we have a slow brain in process here.

[Dr. Marten]

"United States is growing too conservative"

Gee and here I was thinking about moving because I felt the country was going down the liberal potty hole.

[americanbychoice1]

We have that already in the US. Kids care: They are begging for Families to enroll their Children in this program. They have too much money and if they don't use it, the budget will be cut the following year. Problem: Like my daughter, a lot of parents are too lazy to fill out the application, after all, it would take them away from the Jerry Springer show.
Medicaid, probably the best insurance you can get. You have to be a low income person to receive it.
States and Counties have programs as well.
The biggest problem is that young, healthy working individuals, decline health care because it may cut into their beer budget.
I would be in favor of mandating coverage, since it certainly would lower my premiums because of the improved "risk factors".

[Uncle Meat]

This article was posted last week too. Some FReeping may have occured

There was a good thread going last week about this puppet lady.We had a good time busting her out about the goofy looking puppets of hers.I'm sure if someone emailed her the link,she'd bawl her eyes out all the way to Canada.We're just so damn mean.We can't help it.

[dfwgator]

Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

[dfwgator]

It is actually worse than that, or better from your prospective, we are recieving puppeteers and lawyers and you are getting Doctors, Nurses and people with Phds in things like Chemistry and Computer Science.

And we're also getting certain nightly news anchors as well.

[Thommas]

I have to believe, even though I'm conservative, that basic health care is a right, as is education up to grade 12.

I believe that you are sincere. I do not believe in your view of rights. Rights are only legal perogatives granted by a society. Your society has granted health care the status of right - fine. But the adage of "do unto others as you would have them do unto you," is not the rationale for this argument.

The "right" to health care, education, housing, proper nutrition, work, entertainment, ad nauseum, are noble aspirations of a socialist system functioning in an ideal society of a homogenous populous of like-minded ambition and ability. Alas, such a utopia still does not exist, not even in Canada. It does not exist in the United States, nor was it ever supposed to exist here.

Free health care for all the poor and needy? To what end? So that those who suffer from a pitiful environment, smoking, alcohol & drug abuse, old age, deficient diet, risky life style, etc. can live pain free another day? And then another, and another... All at the forced expense of those who are "lucky enough" to have been esconced in a different lifestyle? Nonsense. The nub of this issue is where do we get the right to live another day? We are all gonna demise at some point, no matter how pointless. Live your life with what is at your disposal and don't get in the way of others - that is the meaning of the Golden Rule.

[dfwgator]

If somebody is forced to give something up for you to have it, it is not a "right." That is why there should be no such thing as a "right" to health care.

[Thommas]

Excellent point.

[Thommas]

You took my long screed and condensed into 2 sentences. *sigh*

[kcar]

Well...American ideals are for liberty first and foremost. Certainly Socialist Canada with its gun ban and DMV-styled Health care is not even on the same continent with those ideals.

But if a young leftist, AND her LAWYER husband, want to voluntarily give up their citizenship and go North, "A no-brainer", maybe we should establish The No-Brainer Drain Fund - providing lucky qualifying fools a one-time bonus upon confirmation of revocation of their US citizenship.

Fund Motto:
Give them our whining, leftist bores, their huddled naked a55es yearning to spell "No War", the wretched wimps who won't ever defend our shores. Give these, our homey trepid job-tossed to them. Don't hit your butt by this slamming golden door.

[Cdnexpat]

"And we're also getting certain nightly news anchors as well."


Ah...Well... You can keep those we don't really need them. Ah... Bye

[speekinout]

Do you know the Canadian health system? I was a legal resident there for 2 years in the 70's. I was not eligible for health care there. That may have been because I had not applied for citizenship, but anyway, I had to return to the US for health care.
Is it still the same? Can non-citizen residents get health care ubder the Canadian system? (Yes, they would give care in life-threatening situations. But not for routine things, including broken bones)

[Cincinatus' Wife]

So appropriate!