[thinktwice]

It is hard to be objective when you're up to your ass in alligators.

[JohnGalt]

The logical end of Herr Pipes recommendation, I guess, is to respond to the Islamofascists as fascists?

[Conspiracy Guy]

When you are dealing with the type threat we face rules need to go in the crapper. We have gone a step or two in the proper direction but we have a way to go. As GWB said in the beginning, "This will take time".. Good find

[wideawake]

Nietzsche wrote in his Zur Genealogie der Moral that the ultimate, "sublime" example of a civilized society is one which does not punish criminals in any way.

As its power increases, a community ceases to take the individual's transgressions so seriously, because they can no longer be considered as dangerous and destructive to the whole as they were formerly: the malefactor is no longer "set beyond the pale of peace" and thrust out; universal anger may not be vented upon him as unrestrainedly as before—on the contrary, the whole from now on carefully defends the malefactor against this anger, especially that of those he has directly harmed, and takes him under its protection.

A compromise with the anger of those directly injured by the criminal; an effort to localize the affair and to prevent it from causing any further, let alone a general, disturbance; attempts to discover equivalents and to settle the whole matter (compositio); above all, the increasingly definite will to treat every crime as in some sense dischargeable, and thus at least to a certain extent to isolate the criminal and his deed from one another—these traits become more and more clearly visible as the penal law evolves.

As the power and self-confidence of a community increase, the penal law always becomes more moderate; every weakening or imperiling of the former brings with it a restoration of the harsher forms of the latter. The "creditor" always becomes more humane to the extent that he has grown richer; finally, how much injury he can endure without suffering from it becomes the actual measure of his wealth.

It is not unthinkable that a society might attain such a consciousness of power that it could allow itself the noblest luxury possible to it—letting those who harm it go unpunished. "What are my parasites to me?" it might say. "May they live and prosper: I am strong enough for that!"

[joesnuffy]

when you fight in the mud...you have got to get dirty

[DoctorMichael]

Is the West Too Civilized?

Yes.

[ClearCase_guy]

Victor Davis Hanson often points out that America is slow to anger, but when provoked to war, we kick major ass. The key campaign in the American Civil War was Sherman's march through the South. He "fought dirty" and made Georgia howl. It brought the war to an end. In WWII we fire-bombed Dresden and Tokyo and nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Some folks are appalled by that -- but it brought the war to an end.

I agree with Pipes. If we want Terrorism to end, we've got to take the barbarians down. Hard. Fast. Repeat as necessary. No rules.

[Centurion2000]

Of course the West is too civilized. Too many men have been sissified by feminism and PC.

They can be sissies if they want, just let real men take care of the exernal threats and GET OUT OF OUR WAY.

[A_perfect_lady]

Had the United States retaliated in kind for 9/11, Harris tells me, the Islamic holy places would have been destroyed. Had Israelis followed the Arafat model of murderousness, the West Bank and Gaza would now be devoid of Palestinians. Had the West done toward Iraq as Iraq did toward Kuwait, the Iraqi polity would long ago have been annexed and its oil resources confiscated.

I'd have supported all of these responses 100%. I have no interest in losing from the "high moral ground," and going under muttering, "Well, at least we played nice." I want to win because this is no game, this is our lives.

[Quix]

Some good points in this.

It sure looks like we need to obliterate Damascus. Though it sounds in The Bible like God may have that scheduled at some very momentous time. Who knows.

And North Korea has been increasingly begging to be squashed. Given the dreams and visions of so many about the puppet masters using NK for starting WWIII's invasion of our shores with nukes, it doesn't seem to me that we should wait much longer. But then, we are spread so thin.

Certainly time for plenty of ongoing prayer!

Thanks.

[Quix]

My alternate response is . . .

Civilized?

With Billdo and Shrillery Hellery Antoinette de Fosterizer de Christmas-tree-vaginas-N-penises de Sade . . . 'leading' our 'fair' land . . .

And far too soon roaming gangs and others pillaging, raping, destroying, maiming . . .

I wouldn't crow too much about our being toooo civilized tooo loudly.

Concerted efforts have been afoot for at least 50 years to shred and fracture our culture/society from within. The fruit of such has not really begun to be really harvested yet. But it will be. The puppet masters and stooges have been very skillful and very thorough.

[SauronOfMordor]

The obvious long-term counter to US power, is to infiltrate and take over, as the Islamists are doing in Europe. Simply immigrate in, legally or illegally, and have ten or more kids per Muslim woman. Within one generation, Muslims could be a larger percentage of the electorate than Blacks, and far more militant. Imagine the response in the US if Bush sent in Marines to depose Mugabe in Zimbabwe, and re-install white government. It would be unthinkable -- the cities would be burning by evening. Action against any Muslim polity would be similarly unthinkable once Islamists were 10% or more of our population

The only counter to that would be for the non-Muslim US population to make Islamists feel unwelcome. Very Unwelcome. This is something that the web of civil-rights and hate-crime laws would tend to stifle

[moni kerr]

There are times when it is necessary to behave like a barbarian in order to preserve your civilization.

[SJackson]

If you'd like to be on or off this middle east/political ping list, please FR mail me.

[yonif]

Ping.

[jriemer]

"Is the West Too Civilized?"

Obviously, the author hasn't been around DU lately...

[spodefly]

Don't confuse a lack or will, resolve, and values with being "civilized" ...

[Publius6961]

There's a very clear line between civilized and "PC", i.e. idiotic, suicidal, clueless.

Is it necessary to elaborate?

[RightOnline]

I agree with 99% of this piece......but I see no "double standard" in protecting your own country. It's well past time to stop being "civilized".

The Arab culture understands one thing and one thing only: strength. Given our technology and wealth, could you just imagine what they'd do to us?????

It's time for new rules. We're off to a good start with Afghanistan and Iraq.......but I fear we haven't gone far enough.

[Lonesome in Massachussets]

Is the West Too Civilized?

Uday and Qusay might say, "no", except they're dead and we can't ask them. They're dead, Jim. (Just feels so good to say.)